djtom29 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 HELP!my school bought a new scene setter 48/24 lighting desk not long ago.....as we requested a bull frog and got showtec but thats education for you! We opened the box got the desk out plug it in (with a converter to attach it to our zero88 beta pack dimmers (dont know exactly what ones but will try and find out or take a pic) and guess what? it didn't work! I then plugged it in to an acme spotqueen and it works fine. Everyone in my school (even the technician who is employed by the school to do some shows) thinks it is that the desk is digital and the dimmers are analogue so we need a demux unit.I don't because if the desk was digital and the dimmers were analogue then we would need a demux unit to make it work now using a zero88 Alcora 12/24. I think it is the fact that the desk is 3 pin and dimmers are 5 pin so were do the extra 2 pins come from? so my question is WHAT IS WRONG??? thanks to anyone who can help tomnoise boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Hi there, sorry if I use simple explanations If your dimmers take a 5 pin DMX they are definitely digital so no need for a demuxpins 4 and 5 of a 5 pin cable are not used for standard equipment so don't worryall you need is an appropriate 3 to 5 pin converter, if you have one make sure the polarity switch is set to the correct settingsorry I can't let you know which as zero88's website is down atmthe switch is right next to the DMX socket hope this helpsMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djtom29 Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 thanks mark, I thought they were digital but no one in my school would listen to me. Thats what you get for being in year 10 in education! I will be sure to mention that to the people who are about to order a demux unit tomorrow when they send off the alcora to be fixed. You let one person use a desk for one show and it ends up having to be sent off 3 weeks befor the bigest show of the year. Hopefully I will get a frog. thanks again... so the 4th and 5th don''t do anything in 5 pin DMX on most things? why have them! thanks tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 so the 4th and 5th don''t do anything in 5 pin DMX on most things? why have them!"For future expansion". :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Pins 4 and 5 are there cos the DMX standard says they need to be there. Or, more specifically, because it means that you have no excuse to use mic cable with 3 pins (and which is not suited to DMX due to not having the correct characteristics)... oh, and it stops the noise boys making off with our cables to use for their audio purposes, too! There are many other reasons, search sometime and dig up the actual standards paperwork for DMX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_m Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 IIRC doesn't RDM use this pair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Yep, RDM does use pins 4&5. Now, how many of us have 5 pin cable, with all 5 pins actually connected? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Yep, RDM does use pins 4&5. Now, how many of us have 5 pin cable, with all 5 pins actually connected? :(No it doesn't, for exactly the reason you mention!It was going to, until somebody pointed out that the vast majority of installations didn't bother with the second pair of conductors, either due to expense or because of certain very evil equipment that sticks supply voltages down the second pair and has been known to destroy unsuspecting consoles. The RDM standard now 'turns the bus around' to send data back - which makes RDM splitters rather expensive bits of kit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 fine gents, but our poor year 10 members must be really scratching his head now! If your dimmer packs have 3 or 5 pin XLR type connectors, they are digital control types, if they have an 8 pin, DIN type socket, then they accept a low voltage analogue control input. Some makes may have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 fine gents, but our poor year 10 members must be really scratching his head now! If your dimmer packs have 3 or 5 pin XLR type connectors, they are digital control types, if they have an 8 pin, DIN type socket, then they accept a low voltage analogue control input. Some makes may have both.And I'll add a little clarity to an earlier response: If the desk outputs on 5-pin and the dimmer packs' inputs are also 5-pin, then you just need a straight 5-5pin DMX cable.IF however either of the DMX sockets are 3-pin, then you MAY need a polarity reversal cable or adaptor. Pin 1 will always be the common return but depending on the equipment type, pins 2 and 3 (the actual control wires) may be reversed.Don't get bogged down in all the 'should DMX be 3 pin garbage at this stage - all you need to know is how to get it working! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatman Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 fine gents, but our poor year 10 members must be really scratching his head now! If your dimmer packs have 3 or 5 pin XLR type connectors, they are digital control types, if they have an 8 pin, DIN type socket, then they accept a low voltage analogue control input. Some makes may have both. :( Unless they are Act6's with a 3-pin XLR in which case they are D54 analogue multiplex. Thanks mark, I thought they were digital but no one in my school would listen to me. Thats what you get for being in year 10 in education! I will be sure to mention that to the people who are about to order a demux unit tomorrow when they send off the alcora to be fixed. You let one person use a desk for one show and it ends up having to be sent off 3 weeks befor the bigest show of the year. Hopefully I will get a frog. thanks again... so the 4th and 5th don''t do anything in 5 pin DMX on most things? why have them!thanks tomHi Tom, First of all go to the BR Wiki and have a read about DMX. Then go to the Zero88 Support Centre and download the user manuals for your various bits of kit. Then take them to school with you and show them to the technician. It will make a much better impression if you can show them that you have done a bit of background reading and people will be much more likely to listen to you. Edited to fix scrambled quoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokm Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 all you need is an appropriate 3 to 5 pin converter, if you have one make sure the polarity switch is set to the correct settingthe switch is right next to the DMX socketPolarity switch... you talking about the one on the front of old betapack 2s? If so, that has nothing to do with DMX, its to do with weather the packs getting a +10v or -10v analogue signal. Lets try getting the facts right before we post.. don't want to confuse the poor guy any more than he is now do we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidLee Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Certainly sounds like the problem is DMX polarity. I'm always confused by Scene Setter desks since slightly different incarnations seem to be supplied by different companies (our spare desk is from Velleman). However I think that you should find a DMX polarity inverter switch on the rear panel. If it's there then it should be next to the DMX OUT socket. It's probably a slide switch but I've seen one spec sheet that mentions a push button. The setting that you want for a Zero88 dimmer should be: pin 2: Data*, pin 3: Data - should be the opposite to the present setting. Hope this helps. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 The scene setter has a polarity switch, sorry if that wasn't clear edit: spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 :( Unless they are Act6's with a 3-pin XLR in which case they are D54 analogue multiplex.<Clears throat politely...> Erm the OP said they were Z88 Beta packs..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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