Why are lights so expensive?

[karl]

I work with amateur groups who don't always have great stocks of lanterns and of course there's never any budget to hire stuff so I usually finish up running around trying to beg, borrow and barter for equipment.

 

I had this great idea - "I'll just buy half a dozen 500W fresnels and save myself a lot of hassle in the future". And then I saw the prices.

 

Buying new, the cheapest bargain stock seems to be about £50 - £60. Plus VAT. Plus extra for barndoors, gel holders, hook clamps, safety bonds, plugs and lamps. By the time you've added everything you're well over £100. If you want a good, known brand, well, it's second mortgage time!

 

Now I can understand movers being expensive as they have more moving parts than my car and use complex electronics. And LED lights I can understand being costly because they're new technology and development costs come into play. But surely fresnels haven't changed substantially in at least 40 years and consist of a lamp holder, reflector and lens.

 

I know you can get them cheaper second hand. I'm just intrigued about what makes something so seemingly simple, so expensive.

[Jivemaster]

the small market place!

[David Lee]

At a guess its down to it being a speciaised market and so economies of scale are not really that good. A good lens is always going to cost some money to make. They seem a lot cheaper than when I started off in the business. Also, always ask for the suppliers best price, discounts are nearly always available.

[trussmonkee]

this doesn't answer your question or help with freses but!

A few years ago working with some amdrams that just needed to get some genral washes, we went to argos and bought some 500 watt garden floods at a fiver a piece, cable, plug hook clamp, aly angle section and some pop rivets gave us some 500 watt theatrical floods with gel runners at a total cost of about £11 quid and 20 mins of work don't know if thts of any use?

[david.elsbury]

Those floods clearly state on them "for outdoor use only". To quote Bruce from a recent thread:

 

Is your budget really zero? If not, have a look at 150W/200W exterior floodlights from Screwfix. Under a fiver each, and, as the previous poster mentioned, fine for uplight. Screw them to a bit of wood for stability and position them so they won't hurt anyone falling over on to them.

 

Be aware that the instructions for the Screwfix units explicitly say "for outdoor use only" and "not suitable for portable use" and that they require "a clear space of 1m on front, 0.5m above and 0.3m each side".

 

That's because they get very hot.

 

Not really the sort of kit you want to be using at a house party.

[ceecrb1]

Reliability

 

 

Buy some cheap ones from china and see how much of a pain in the "rear end" they are.

I'm forever doing modifications to the ones we have to get them up to scratch.h

[trussmonkee]

Those floods clearly state on them "for outdoor use only". To quote Bruce from a recent thread:

 

Is your budget really zero? If not, have a look at 150W/200W exterior floodlights from Screwfix. Under a fiver each, and, as the previous poster mentioned, fine for uplight. Screw them to a bit of wood for stability and position them so they won't hurt anyone falling over on to them.

 

Be aware that the instructions for the Screwfix units explicitly say "for outdoor use only" and "not suitable for portable use" and that they require "a clear space of 1m on front, 0.5m above and 0.3m each side".

 

That's because they get very hot.

 

Not really the sort of kit you want to be using at a house party.

 

 

I Have used these for a fair while with no hastles, treat them with the same respect as a 2k seems to be the rule really,

but not freses so it was just a thought

[paulears]

They are not expensive at all. In 1972, it was around £20 for a cheap 500W, and in the £35-50 range for 1K versions - 2K big ones were over a hundred pounds. To put this into perspective - the miners dispute at that time had this kind of stuff in the press.

They are demanding a £9 a week pay rise on top of an average wage of £25.

 

Considering the minimum wage is virtually ten times that now - the price of stage lighting has come down in real terms - so £50 for the base price of a fresnel is a steal - the 1972 prices were also plus lamp, plus barndoors, plus clamp etc etc.

 

To further put this into a price context - to see the show that year, would have cost less than £1 - many theatres having typical seat prices from 30p to 75p!

[bruce]

I Have used these for a fair while with no hastles,

 

nevertheless, you may be using them in contravention to the manufacturers very specific instructions.

 

Imagine there was a fire. You have just given your insurers a perfectly valid "get-out".

 

Having said that, I have used similar units indoors, but I did specifically check to see that there was no explicit "outside only" warning.

[karl]

At a guess its down to it being a speciaised market and so economies of scale are not really that good. A good lens is always going to cost some money to make.

 

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. There's a fair chunk of glass in those lenses and all of the parts are pretty unique to the one product.

 

Last time I visited Ikea they had some nifty lights called something like Isbryter. They were domestic novelty lights rather than theatrical but came with plug, lamp (mr16 50W), lens, filters, gobos, iris, shutters, hanging attachments, the whole works all for £25 (inc VAT). I suppose if you're churning out millions of units your costs come down. Plus of course they didn't have to stand up to anything like the wear and tear.

 

In 1972, it was around £20 for a cheap 500W, and in the £35-50 range for 1K versions - 2K big ones were over a hundred pounds.

 

Blimey, that's some drop in real terms.

 

the 1972 prices were also plus lamp, plus barndoors, plus clamp etc etc.

 

Actually, now I come to think about it, that's the killer. £50 for the lantern doesn't seem completely unreasonable, it's the fact that the accessories add so much to the price. I suppose you could make do without barndoors and, at a real push, the gel frame but pretty much everything else in necessary.

[Pete McCrea]

I've got two 'Isbryter' or whatever they're called upstairs. Great but crap at the same time. We used them at our wedding about three years ago. they were great the first time, but then screw threads get mangled easily, dichroic filters burnt out and a fiddle to use.

 

And that is one reason that proper units are more expensive. The quality and design that are put in, as well as the materials.

[adamharman]

If you've on a tight budget, I'd recommend buying 2nd hand. You should be able to get some good quality used kit for a similar price to the new chinese stuff.

 

I've had several from usedlighting.co.uk, it's cleaned, tested, and mostly comes with plug and lamp. I'm sure they'd do you a good deal on a set of lanterns with clamps and chains.

[Ynot]

Sorry (well, actually I'm not, but hey-ho!) but theatre lanterns per se are NOT inherently expensive.

There are SOME that I would say ARE dearer than others, but as with EVERYTHING in this life, you gets what you pays for.

 

Budget fresnels at the £50 or so mark plus bubble/clamp/bond are quite honestly very reasonable when you consider you get a basic stage quality lantern with focus, colour and adjustment all easily available. Buy several at the same time from a reputable dealer and the price WILL drop in proportion.

 

However, for an am-dram group who maybe only produces a couple or three shows a year, hiring is even cheaper! Stage LX are far from the cheapest hirers, but even their price of £7.10 a week for a Quartet is surely well within the budget? If not, WHY not?? And there ARE cheaper outfits!

 

I often get cross with the am-dram groups who say that they can't afford the niceties which make a show better (ie decent lighting basics) yet insist on keeping their ticket prices lower than they could maybe sell them. There's one company I know actually used to advertise themselves as "the cheapest panto in the midlands" which to my mind is hardly an attention grabber!! Stick 50p on each ticket and hire yourselves some decent lantern stock!!

[cliveybaby]

I think the low cost £50-60 fresnels are very good for the cash

 

the problems when I have used them are:

 

 

Main yoke a bit weak (CE...hmmm)

 

Pivot from yoke to body unreliable after a bit of use

 

Sliding mech for focus very jerky (like a very dirty prelude) and will laugh at you whenyou push too hard

and smash holder and lamp into lense...Doh

 

Lense clamps often bent and can make beam very 'odd' looking, if so pliers and a good eye

 

Standard cheap plastic iec conectors so not a very positive lock and run warm from lamp

 

Barn doors are always crap on cheap lanterns, just live with it

 

 

But if you can put up with it the cost may outway the inconvenience

as if set right the effect can be fine to very good

 

Cliveybaby

[Graham NZ]

Hi

 

Cost of stage lights..... To put it all into perspective to get a clean beam, that is focusable in a unit that has managable heat, limited light leaks, doesn't melt gel, complies with CE, has a range of beam angles all comes with a cost for RnD. Manufacturers are not charities they need to get the money that they invest on a products' development back. Given the size of the user base the market is limited to X number of units per year so your oppertunity to get back RnD is impacted.

 

Once you have designed your nice light that does the tasks required you need to get tools made to make the components. Things like dies have limited number of uses. Again a cost that has to be got back in the user price. Then there is the cost of materials, glass, aluminium, lampbases, cable. Once you add those up you need to make a margin that is better than simply taking your money to the bank and getting interest. If you don't why manufacture and be in business?

 

Finally you have to get the message to the market. Brochures, adverts, trade shows, demos....all of it adds up. Finally there is the cost of warranty and ensuring the customer gets a high level of service.

 

Hope that helps you understand that at the end of the day you are actually getting amazing value for money.

 

Best

Graham