Positioning of lights in Schools

[Jambo_UK]

Hi ever1 just a quick Question,

 

In Secondary schools which have there own light systems who can reposition the stage lighting on high bars in their halls, Is there an age limit or can another do it?

 

For example I am 16 and I will soon be working on yet my first concert where I am head of the lighting and sound :(, Am I and my team of other 16 year olds allowed to move the position of the lights on their bars.

 

(The bars are about 8-12 metres above the floor, and we should be using the school tower.)

 

Can students move the lights or is there an age limit or even does a profesional have to come in and position them?

 

thanks for the help again

 

from

 

Jambo

 

PS. Mod if this is in the wrong area, I am sorry in advantage was not sure to post it here or in Lighting,

[Stu]

I *believe* you have to be 18 to work at heights (or perhaps 18 with suitable supervisation (i.e. someone over 18).

 

Nanny state and all.

 

Stu

[P. Funk]

well... where I am at school we were told that anyone who went on the course could go up the tower with supervision from an adult, and anyone over 16 can go up without supervision, but cannot supervise someone else.

 

If you're 16 you should be alright... as long as what you're rigging does conform to relevant safety standards.

[Jambo_UK]

we were told that anyone who went on the course could go up the tower

 

What is the course you went on? Is it a basic H&S course?

 

and would five ceiling moulted T-bars with basic stage lighting on break safety rales, I think they have safety chains on them :( not sure, not will check.

[gareth]

Rules on this seem to vary, depending on the local education authority and also the attitude of individual schools. You need to speak to the member of staff at your school who has responsibility for looking after the performance space - they'll be able to tell you what the school's policy is regarding pupils using access equipment, etc.

 

This thread might be of some use to you.

[P. Funk]

umm.. ceiling mounted T-bars? can you give me an idea as to how that looks?

 

the name of the course was 'Mobile Static Towers, Steps, And Ladders Safety' run by Safety Services (UK) Ltd. and allows me to assemble, disassemble, climb, and work on a scaff tower at school (and ladders and steps as well, though we never use those).I have no idea what legal implications it has.

[Jambo_UK]

I will see if I can get a pic of them for you on Monday,

 

Cam anyone tell me of a course I can do in my area of west sussex, because the only courses I have seem so far are all up north!

 

from

 

Jambo

[Andy!]

Well I first went up ours when I was 13, but with people watching but no I jsut go up all the time aslong as an adult is in the room. I have already been head of the tech at out school for our panto.

[misterbassman]

me and my mate used to go up the school tower for every production, we had to have the head of drama in the room with us though

[Djbarryblue]

You can do so if you are over 16 if it is over 2m you need saftey harness and helmet you also need a second person at the foot of the ladder/tower as far as I am aware they dont have to be over 16 but need to ware a saftey helment + Steel toe caps. You also better check out your schools insures coverage for pupils doing so as well.

[Jon T]

I have been goin up our school tower since the age of 13 :** laughs out loud **:

[egw]

Hi,

 

To elaborate on your post, I think there are two questions here: Firstly the working at height aspect and secondly the fact that you are working with an electrical system.

 

If you think carefully about working at height, rigging lanterns etc. then I think you would find that the hazards would be pretty much identical whether you are working in a school or a local theatre. One control measure which would leap out at you would be the competence of the person doing the work and hence the need for training. I would have thought that somebody who is trained in using a method of access equipment and is following that technique is not more likely to suffer an injury because of their age. Naturally the above presumes that the training is actually being used and that the pupil is sixteen years of age.

 

The legislation covering working at height doesn’t specifically mention age restrictions, however, pupils are treated as employees for the purposes of safety law. The Factories act also restricts what you can employ a child (by which they mean a person under sixteen years of age) and to a lesser extent a young person (under eighteen years of age). Hence I would have thought that for a sixteen year old there would not be a problem with working at height, although it is worth noting that the Factories Act allows local authorities to pass additional restrictions on employing under eighteens. (stands by to be corrected by Brian….)

 

With regard to the electrical side then I would say that the same sort of logic applies; so long as you are following a safe system of work, have completed a careful risk assessment and since focusing is a function which the lantern is designed for then you have reduced the risks to the same level as anybody else. In legal terms, as I understand the situation, the same level of restrictions as I described above would apply.

 

However, the letter of the law is not the only thing that might limit what you can do. The L.E.A. may have a policy on pupils working at height or the schools insurers may have placed restrictions on what members of staff may supervise, what students can do etc. Another consideration is the manufacturers instructions on your access equipment; if they state only to be operated by persons over 18 years of age then you have a problem.

 

My personal rant....

 

The general problem as I see it is the lack of training provided to teachers and thence to pupils; teachers often seem to be unaware that lanterns etc. require P.A.T testing or about other important requirements such as L.O.L.E.R. Whilst briefly on the subject I would take a good guess that although pupils are regarded as employees from an H&S point of view P.P.E. is not provided by most schools. Another worry is that teachers are expected to supervise activities which they just don't know enough about; if the teacher is not trained in the assembly of a scaffolding tower then what is the point of having them there? If the teachers do not have the knowledge, training they need to effectively supervise and teach students involved in technical work then they are being put into a very false position when they are expected to supervise such activities.

 

The disturbing result is that students are not trained and rely on common sense and what they learn through casual work, whilst the student would learn a lot through casual work my point is that the training should be provided. Of course, as we are all well aware, the money to provide proper training is simply not there.

 

Apologies for the post length!

 

Cheers,

[Rob]

You can do so if you are over 16 if it is over 2m you need saftey harness and helmet you also need a second person at the foot of the ladder/tower as far as I am aware they dont have to be over 16 but need to ware a saftey helment + Steel toe caps.

 

This is not necessarily true at all - PPE requirements will be directed by risk assessments. There is no gospel requirement to wear a harness over 2mtrs, and doing so opens various other 'cans of worms'.

[gil-galad]

The HSAW Act 1974 very clearly states what the definition of a young person is and how they can do things like hanging lights etc if it is part of their training.

You could do a course but if you are under 16 then you would not be able to take part. If you are over 16 and under 18 then you could do a college course but this would not solve the problem of the school allowing you to work.

 

The downfall is that the person who is supervising must be deemed as competent and must have done relevant risk assessments etc etc for all tasks to be completed by young persons during work training.

 

This is where the schools opt out and say that no students must go over 2m and must not touch the dimmers etc. It is not the age that is the problem for anyone 16 or over but the fact that the people who are supervising them are insufficiently trained to be able to teach the students the "safe" way to work.

 

I have included a section of the HSAW explanatory notes (don't panic they are not copyrighted and are free from the HSE website)

 

The Health and Safety at work act has a section to cover the protection of young persons (under 16)

 

In the eyes of the law the Government looks upon students as employees and not as general public. Therefore some laws can be disregarded however, others become enforced. Examples are;

 

No employer should employ a young person for work –

· Which is beyond their physical or psychological capacity.

· Involving harmful exposure to agents which are toxic or carcinogenic, cause heritable genetic damage or harm to unborn children.

· Involving harmful exposure to radiation.

· Involving the risk of accidents which it may be reasonably assumed cannot be recognized or avoided by young persons owing to their insufficient attention to safety or lack of experience or training; or

· In which there is a risk to health from either extreme cold or heat, noise or vibration.

 

Nothing in the afore mentioned paragraph shall prevent the employment of a young person who is no longer a child (18 and over) for work –

· Where it is necessary for their training

· Where the young person will be supervised by a competent person; and

· Where any risk will be reduced the lowest level that is reasonably practical.

 

A young person is someone who is under 18 years of age. Anybody under this age should normally not operate heavy machinery or high voltage equipment.

It is highly unlikely that a young person would be sufficiently competent to be considered as a “competent person†for the purpose of carrying out examinations or inspections of lifting or electrical equipment or the planning and supervision of use of such equipment.

[robloxley]

In the eyes of the law the Government looks upon students as employees and not as general public.

Don't have anything concrete to hand, but wan't entirely sure that's true. However I'm prepared to be corrected!