Bright light bright light

[noiseboymart]

I am not quite sure which forum this should go in but will try this one.

It a bit of a question/moan/comment.

The background of the subject being to use a large projection screen in conjunction with music and lights for playing music dvds etc

Today I have just organised a demo of a projector for the nightclub I run on the technical side.The guys came in and set the gear up for a front projection system.

The system worked great a 20 foot wide image that is not drowned out by any other lighting I would be using at the same time with great resolution.Then one of the directors walked accross the image and said "oh thats bright" when looking at the projector, "what about HSE issues/ the sueing culture."So now we have to go with rear projection which due to various longwinded reasons is not as practicle.

Are there any guidelines or regulations on lamp brightness that people can look at ?

Personnaly I did not think it was any brighter than a Mac 500 at eye level which I regularly use.

The moaning part of this topic really revolves round the HSE and sueing culture, but firstly I will say I am not HSE negative, it has some very valid rules and regs and in general is a good thing.

But surely things are going a bit too far these days .Maybe if you glued your eyelids open and stood a foot away from the projector looking into the lense it would do you some damage, but due to the proposed position the light would of traveled 30 feet before you could look directly into it, unless you were 10 feet tall that is.

Any thoughts information or comments.

Cheers

Martin

[Ynot]

Are there any guidelines or regulations on lamp brightness that people can look at ?

Personnaly I did not think it was any brighter than a Mac 500 at eye level which I regularly use.

Is it brighter than looking directly at the Mac 300,000 that fades across the sky (sometimes) each day, with a permanent yellow gel across it...??? :)

 

I'd personally say that the guy in question is being a CYA H & S pedant, but what do I know....?! ;)

[w/robe]

I'd personally say that the guy in question is being a CYA H & S pedant, but what do I know....?! :)

He is probably just worrying about being the person sued.

 

Do the people trying to sell you the system not have any information on the rules and regs. pertaining to the product that they are supplying.

I would have thought that if a sale relied on it then they would be able to find you some answers PDQ.

[Brian]

There are no Rules and/or Regulations to cover this, (and yes, I'm aware of the 'Artificial Optical Radiations Directive 2006') he is being a tw*t.

[noiseboymart]

Just to clarify things bit the projector is 5500 lumens .A Mac 500 is 9000.

Later

Martin

[Andrew C]

The school computer advisory organisation, BECTA http://schools.becta.org.uk/index.php?sect...amp;NextStart=1 recommend 1500 lumen as a MAXIMUM for classrooms, as the teacher will be looking into the beam for extended periods.

" It is generally viewed that a maximum of 1500 ANSI lumens is adequate for projection equipment in most classroom environments, except in the most extreme ambient lighting conditions, where it is advised that window blinds are used rather than increasing the brightness of the projector."

This may not be relevant, but is offered as food for thought.

[paulears]

do they specify a distance? Seems rather daft, if they don't. After all, brighter projectors are normally used because they are further away?

[Andrew C]

Classrooms? Typically of the order 2 to 4m.

[Ynot]

There are no Rules and/or Regulations to cover this, (and yes, I'm aware of the 'Artificial Optical Radiations Directive 2006') he is being a tw*t.

Oh, come on, Brian - say what you really mean...!! :) ;) :D

 

 

The school computer advisory organisation, BECTA http://schools.becta.org.uk/index.php?sect...amp;NextStart=1 recommend 1500 lumen as a MAXIMUM for classrooms, as the teacher will be looking into the beam for extended periods.

" It is generally viewed that a maximum of 1500 ANSI lumens is adequate for projection equipment in most classroom environments, except in the most extreme ambient lighting conditions, where it is advised that window blinds are used rather than increasing the brightness of the projector."

This may not be relevant, but is offered as food for thought.

Interesting quote, but may not be relevant, in that the circumstances of use are different.

Classroom - teacher looking towards projector for 45-60 minute lesson (max).

Nightclub - punters getting in the sightline of the projector - occasional.

Teacher can't very well move too far from the screen during lessons if that's what they need to do, but punters in a club can say "Duh, dat's brite - Oi fink oi'll move sum wear els!!"

 

:D

[JPSTechie]

There has been some concerns raised with looking for long periods into projector beams. The research has said that people that spend a long time looking at projector are more likely to develop a disease call Macular degeneration disease that effects the retaner (sorry if it is spelt wrong) and eventually you will lose you sight.

[noiseboymart]

Thanks for everyones input so far.

I am with ynot re. the sun and like others have pointed out you dont have to look at it as teachers do if its too bright you look away, anyway why look at it when you can turn around and see the resultant picture 25 feet wide?

A p****d off

Martin

[Ynot]

There has been some concerns raised with looking for long periods into projector beams. The research has said that people that spend a long time looking at projector are more likely to develop a disease call Macular degeneration disease that effects the retaner (sorry if it is spelt wrong) and eventually you will lose you sight.

Yeah - but as I say above, it's HIGHLY unlikely that a nightclub punter will stare into any bem longer than it takes to realise that "Dat lite is brite!!" and the earlier post about limits for teachers are apparently spec'd.

[bruce]

....as the teacher will be looking into the beam for extended periods.

 

Then they are standing in the wrong place.

 

If they are "looking into the beam", then (a) they're casting a shadow, and (b) they're probably obscuring another part of the screen. I would ahve assumed that they would get some basic training in the use of AV equipment, which would have contained some basic info such as "this bright thing is used to project stuff on the screen for the kiddies to see that stuff. If you stand in front of it, they won't see the stuff".

 

Perhaps they think it's a spotlight ? :)

 

Working in a University, I can appreciate the problem. There are a significant number of very intellectual and intelligent lecturers, who seem to be a little bit short on common sense.

[Roderick]

If one of the directors is afraid of being sued over a video projector, he has a few other things to worry about:

- Moving lights - as pointed out above, most will have almost twice the light output

- Noise - I doubt the PA will be running at 85dBA, there's a reason to sue for hearing damage

- Strobe lights - Can cause an epileptic attack

- Hazers - Can cause asthmatic attacks

and the of course there are:

- Spilt drinks - slips and falls

- Low light levels in general areas, causing trips and falls

- Alcohol abuse

- Drink spiking

- Crowd pressure in an emergency due to overcrowding

 

So if this bloke really wants a nightclub where he can't be sued, we'd be looking at

- Fluoro's (some wrapped in gels) on the ceiling

- Music at 85dBA

- Only serving tea and coffee

Somehow I don't think that overcrowding will be a problem anymore.

 

[rant]

And, my personal pet hate, can we not mention OH&S and sueing in the same sentence? They are vastly different beasts.

OH&S is designed to make sure most people go home in pretty much the same shape and form as they arrived at work.

Sueing is the result of a totally inadequate legal system that allows people to blame others for their actions without taking any responsibility. The abuse of the legal system is widely supported by sensation greedy media and even greedier 'no cure, no pay' lawyers.

[/rant]

[pscandrett]

On a similar note, I've occasionally wondered if there are any implications when using audience blinders (moles). As the LX op I know when they're going to come on/flash, but particularly for people who don't, the contrast between not-on and on in a darkened room/gig venue can be very great. The size of venues we use means we normally just use 2 cells and 4 cells, though we've some 8 cells we occasionally use at larger events.

 

I know they're /called/ blinders - but I can't help but think that's not the point!

 

The human eye's fantastic at reacting to this sort of thing, however... well, are there any guidelines surrounding the use of blinders in a similar way please?

 

ta