Tallescopes

[alan v]

I looked at the JLG as a possible replacement for the tallescope. I wasn't overly worried about cost (I'm sure I could justify it on H&S, but also on needing less people around for moving the tallescope which is definitely a financial and logistical consideration).

 

Pros:

It can move while up in the air (though when you can lower yourself anyway, it isn't so much of an issue);

 

No outriggers (easy to deal with fiddly sets)

 

Unlikely to tip (base heavy - it's designed to move with someone in the basket)

 

No climbing up ladders.

 

Cons:

Too heavy! It would a) crush cables and B) fall through steeldeck (we sometimes go into promenade, and use losts of steeldeck for this).

 

And I wasn't to confident about driving the tower when near the front of the stage...

 

We haven't replaced our scope as yet. If it was much lighter, I'm sure I would go for it. I would love to actually.

 

As for scope safety, we try and have two people moving it (who know what they are doing), always have a competant person in the basket, and use common sense; i.e. we rely on experience to know when a manouver is too risky to carry out.

 

We use outriggers if we are going really high, or if the person in the basket wants them - they are in charge, after all.

 

Incidentally Peter, if there is only one person to move the scope, we always pull, not push. I don't know if you were speaking literally or figuratively in your initial post!

 

alan.

[robloxley]

As has been said, most theatres assess the risks of using a Tallescope to determine their standard operating procedure. In line with ABTT advice, this usually allows for moving people up the tallescope, to avoid operator fatigue, which is a documented cause of accidents.

 

Yes, a Genie or self-propelled platform would be nice, but their disadvantages have been made clear, not least cost.

 

Going back to tallies, I heard about an accident this past weekend where someone fell from a tallescope in a London theatre - not due to moving it with them at height, but due to their stupidity and failure to follow the correct working procedure.

[John Lethbridge]

The ABTT in conjunction with a Working Group of the Broadcasting and Performing Arts Joint Advisory Committee (phew! they must have a wide letterbox!) is about to publish 'TALLESCOPES: GUIDANCE ON SAFE USE IN THEATRES AND SIMILAR LOCATIONS' The document is currently in draft form and has recently been under review by the membership.

 

It may well be available now from the ABTT office at www.abtt.org.uk

 

In the meantime, you can check out the ABTT's earlier guidance on this subject at the link below

 

John Lethbridge

ABTT Safety Committee

 

 

ABTT former guidance on Tallescopes

[Guest lightnix]

Any sensible risk assessment will rate Tallescope use as a high risk activity, in which case (I believe) the HSE say that manufacturers instructions must be followed. All 'scope manufacturers are very clear on the subject - the 'scope should not be moved with an operator in the basket.

 

I quite agree with the fatigue arguement and have experienced such fatigue myself, but still believe that it can be overcome by rotating the crew, whose members should (as part of a safe system of work) be fully trained in all aspects of 'scope use and focussing.

 

Obviously a 'scope climber should have a certain level of fitness in order to do it repeatedly and the number of times a 'scope can be climbed will vary from person to person. I'm not quite sure how you would assess a person's level of fitness and relate it to the number of times they can climb up a 'scope, before their fatigue level got too high. I suppose it's down to the individual to know their limits and not try to tough it out for the sake of appearence.

 

I have also heard that if you are over 15 stone in weight you are actually too heavy to go up a 'scope. Is this true ?

[Tom]

I have also heard that if you are over 15 stone in weight you are actually too heavy to go up a 'scope.  Is this true ?

Not sure of exactlywhat the weight limit is but I did have the joy of taking a show into a vune recently where one of the two LX crew was not allowed up the scope as he was too heavy.

[Steve Macluskie]

I have also heard that if you are over 15 stone in weight you are actually too heavy to go up a 'scope. Is this true ?

 

Yup

 

Our 'scope has a SWL of 115kg which is approx. 18stone by my calculations.

 

All tallescopes must have decals which should be legible and give the maufacturers most important reccomendations. If your going to follow this reccomendation then I suppose you should follow through and follow the one beside it which says " Do not move with a person in the basket"

 

Anything else would be hypocritical surely?

 

Steve

[NickLee]

People working alone and "pulling themselves along the bar"  (This is so stupid I can't even imagine it happening...but it does)

It does happen.

I worked with an SM that who almost sent himself over on one (not v. high, but still 10ftish off the stage).

It was only myself working on a ladder on an LX bar next to him that stopped him going, as well as his quick reactions (grabbing another bar and hooking the rails of the tallescope under his feet to "pull it back").

It was shocking, and very chilling.

 

In practicality,if you're using a tallescope you can't go "up and down", you have to move along. They're so damn slow to use, it's the only way. Give me a ladder any day - even if it means lugging a lantern or having to use a rope as a "winch" on the bar to raise/lower things, I prefer it. It's quicker, more convenient, and I feel safer.

Also - the higher you go the more sensitive they are to slightly uneven surfaces. Sounds obvious but on an uneven surface they can be pretty scary.

 

Having said this, I appreciate that above opinion is only valid up to a certain height, then tallescopes or their ilk are neccessary - but I've never encountered this situation in my limited experience and if I had the choice I know what I'd choose!

 

Nick.

[TeeJay]

I have a soft spot for scissor lifts. More space to move around on top than on a scope or genie but again that cost/weight issue

Have a look here

 

I'm not sure there ever will be a definitive answer to this. It sometimes feels like the best solution would be a bridge with the LX bar attached to it that a technician could walk along and reach through to re-focus. Might be some problems installing this in a few venues though <_<

 

Maybe we should follow RADAs lead and have a tension wire grid installed as standard.

 

Lets be honest - until the day that every theatre is the same (god forbid) there will never be one answer to the problem of working at height.

It just becomes a duty of everyone present to be aware of the risks inherent in whatever method of access is available

[Stu]

I'm not sure there ever will be a definitive answer to this. It sometimes feels like the best solution would be a bridge with the LX bar attached to it that a technician could walk along and reach through to re-focus.

And god does it make life so much easier!

 

Stu

[DSA]

A couple of things to ask here...

 

Firstly this makes my own thoughts on moving while someone is in the basket more organised... very useful.

 

Now I have some questions of my own - thought it would be silly to start a new thread.

 

1) Is it safe to use the tallesope as a ladder? What I mean by this is climbing up half way and hanging on while you focus a light eg on a perch. (obviously with brakes applied and with outriggers)

 

2) Does the climber need to secure themselves by harness etc. to a lx bar or something similar at the top in case of an accident?

 

3) Is it safe to haul lanterns by rope from the basket (also lowering them). If not - how should this be done safely. This is how I was shpwn to do it - we have a rope tied to the top bar of the basket (which is as long as the scope is high) with a 'bag' at the bottom. Can take a photo if this is not understood.

 

Thanks,

David

[robloxley]

1)  Is it safe to use the tallesope as a ladder?  What I mean by this is climbing up half way and hanging on while you focus a light eg on a perch.  (obviously with brakes applied and with outriggers)

I wouldn't want to be working off the side of a vertical 'ladder' in this way. Use the proper access equipment for the task - it sounds like an A-frame/lamda ladder would be a more suitable method.

 

2)  Does the climber need to secure themselves by harness etc. to a lx bar or something similar at the top in case of an accident?

It's unlikely that many lx bars are rated for fall arrest purposes, also you'd need to have all the right kit and a plan to get down when dangling from your harness etc.

 

3)  Is it safe to haul lanterns by rope from the basket (also lowering them). 

As a start you need to make sure that you keep the load inside the base footprint of the tallescope and keep the weight down to avoid destabalising the tallescope, and keep clear of anyone standing under the tallescope (hard hats can protect against falling shuttes/barndoors/gel frames). It's often more sensible to fly the bar in if possible, or run the hauling rope over the bar or a fixed point with someone at ground level taking the weight of the lantern to allow you both hands to recieve it and rig it.

 

However for all these things again you need determine the hazards associated, assess the risk and come up with a safe working method - there are few hard and fast rules as such - and what might be considered 'safe' in one situation cannot necessarily be universally applied.

[iZian]

I think that moving the TS with somebody in the basket is perfectly fine providing that the people moving the TS at the base dont want to take it for a joyride and slowly move it. Aided by one more person who keeps an eye out for any problems, such as the guy starting to fall out the top.

 

One idea would be to keep the outriggers raised slightly off the ground and locked in so that if tipping occurs then the outriggers will hopefully hinder the TS from going over.

 

I can see where you are coming from, Dave, when you ask can we work on the TS without being in the basket at the top. It would make life a lot easier to work on the sides of the hall to get the lights that are vertically alligned pointed etc. If the 'pointer' were to harness themselves to a rung on the ladder then I see no problem in that, also, it would make getting the lamps up there a hell of a lot easier by using the current method of using the bag to raise them.

[robloxley]

If the 'pointer' were to harness themselves to a rung on the ladder then I see no problem in that

God, I really do worry.

Unless you have the right kit and the point you attach your fall arrest gear to is rated for the purpose then in effect you're in a worse position with regards to safety as you have a false sense of security provided by a potentially ineffective fall arrest system.

[Dave]

...run the hauling rope over the bar or a fixed point with someone at ground level taking the weight of the lantern...

Sorry to be pedantic, but I would suggest that hauling a rope over a bar is bad practice - you should use a small pulley.

[patesrichard]

I know that I am even younger than dave, put I am pleased to see that the person that was doing most of the rigging/repointing for the production during Friday was sensible enough to say that he was too tired to go up again. This is probably due to the fact that up until now we have followed the manufacturers advice and he had been climbing down between each lantern before we moved along.

 

Unfortunately this left the problem that there were 7 of us their, all between the ages of 14 and 18, only 4 of which were willing to go up. As a result, once the first person gave up, the only other experienced person was sorting out a followspot and as neither my brother or I was confident to attach another lantern to the hard to reach bar we had to give up for the day and move onto the perches that we could reach by leaning over the balcony at the side.

 

DO you think 1) That people as young as us should be using tallescopes, and

2) That we should lean out of the balcony to access the higher lanterns on the perches?

 

It should be pointed out that to fall out of the balcony you would have to squeexe between the two horizontal steel bars that make up the rail (almost impossible to anyone but a contortionist), and that we weren't replacing the lanterns, just spinning tham, applying gels and repointing them.

 

Would like to hear your opinions on this, Richard

 

P.S. Although we were not being directly supervised, the head of drama, who is essentially HoD was in the hall as well carrying out a rehearsel, so there was an adult there.