Churches

[allsounds]

before I start apologies if offend anyone and please excuse my ignorance as I no nothing about the subject, hence why I a asking.

 

I have been wondering for a while where churches get their funding from to purchase all their sound and lighting kit becuase after reading a few posts they seem to not scrimp on spending and some churches seem to be installing better sound and lighting systems than some small theatres.

Not being a religious person or a regular church visitor myself I dont know as to whether it is only a certain type of church that has this but the few churches that I have been to do not have anywhere near the amount/type of equipment ive been reading about on here.

Does it all come from donations? - I would be intriguiged (sp?) to find out so if anyone out there could shed some light I would be most appreciative

 

Thanks & Happy Crimbo/New Year(when it comes) to you all

 

 

Matt

[jonhole]

after doing sound/visuals etc at different Churches around Exeter, Devon, I think its fair to say Churches aren't that well off normally.

 

You'll often find the equipment belongs to a member of the Church, and just allow the Chruch to use it. Sometimes people allow the Chruch to use the equipment as it means they don't have to store it themselves, but still can come and get it whenever they want.

 

Where the equipment is owned by the Church, it is baught by donations or occasionally a one of donation (maybe through a will etc) that has said they want the money spent on just one 'feature' of the Chruch, ie. a loop system, visuals equipments etc,

 

 

At my main Church, they own the projector, and sound system, but the operators bring the Macs etc to operate. So once again, it isn't owned by the Church themselves.

 

Finally, we often hire in lighting systems etc for certain things.

 

To people who come in, it looks like the Laptops, computers, lighting, video mixers, fold back monitors, belong to the Church, but this often isn't the case, If only!

 

 

EDIT: (sorry, one more thing!) One Church in Exeter owns a large amount of Lighting/Sound equipment (DMX lighting, etc etc) and I believe they possibly have paid engineers/technicians, because of paid services they provide, like web design, CD recording, allowing them to afford this.

[simschr]

Hi Matt,

My local churches usually get thier money from voluntary donations but they do get some money from thier govening body Church of England, Hillsong etc.

 

Chris

[Mr.Si]

Well it depends on what sort of church it is, and the type of building that they have and the congregation that goes.

 

Basically churches get money from the congregation members who give to the church in the form of "Tithing" and just the general offering/collections etc.

Alot of church members who "tithe" give 10% of their salary to the church. - This goes to the whole of the church's funding etc, including the pay for the church leaders / clergy / vicar / Pastor etc, whatever there is. Also there is any stuff that the church has to buy during the year, or the rent of a building they use etc.

 

Those are just a few things, so depending on how much money they have, and yes, it does seem to vary hugely, depends on what they can buy and if it's justifiable. (there's another issue).

[blackrose]

how ya all doing I'm on the tech team at our church

at my church most of the gear is second hand, beged borrowoed or stollen (j/k) from other chuches or bought off them

speacilist stuff like certain types of lights or mics can be hired in.

the offering money is devided but the diffrent 'departments' of the church so as a tech team we dont get much however most of us ar in the trade so we have bits of our own that get lent to the church on long term lone. the only proiblem then is insurance as you house hold dont tend to cover it and never do the chuches.

the final thing that church techys get is miriacles because when you kit comes from all all over and from so many diffrent places its a mirical anything works

[themadhippy]

slightly related but as 1 of the largest landowners in the uk why does the church still have to go round with the begging bowl when the roof devolps a leek?

[edmeister]

Because they have (in some cases) virtually nil income from the parish. Attendence is ebbing away and those that are left are often now pensioners who cannot afford to make huge contributions to the collection plate. People who bang on about the church being the largest landowner..... really wind me up, as farmers are often portrayed in a similar way. Just because they have lots of assets, doesnt necessarily make them wealthy, buildings and land (especailly listed churches) are hardly very liquid.

 

What about a community theatre, they might own a huge building (if they're lucky) but that doesnt mean that they can afford the roof in order, let alone afford decent equipment.

[Mr.Si]

Mr Hippy Sir, I'm afraid that's not the type of church that most of us church going / Christian population on here go to.

 

I know the church has developed such a reputation as that, and it's always on TV programs like that too, but it's just a bit of an outdated viewpoint IMO.

 

Si

 

Edit: Edmeister does have a v good point.

[Pete McCrea]

As the others have said, the church does own a large amout of land, but it's income is very low. There is up roar from people in Cheltenham as soon as the idea of closing a church to save money is mooted. Despite the fact hardly any of these people go to the church. If they actually attended the church then they would be more entitled to campaign to keep it open, and probably contribute to it's upkeep.

 

There are churches out there that are growing (Hilsongs London, the Vineyard Churches, Soul Survivor, various Anglican Churches that are on the move to name a few.) These churches struggle to do things, and rely on the congregation to contribute. Most go on the biblical principle of 10%, but often the larger churches can attract more affluent people who maybe tithe more. And the tithing principle also applys to time- I give my time do the AV at the monthly servcie in a local 4000 capacity venue for Free- they hire the kit from me, but I only cover costs on that gig.

 

The larger churches have other ways of creating income. Holy Trinity in Cheltenham have a media department that creates video and works on Albums for christian artists. The guys at Trinity make sure that any production work (whether a gig or DVD or Album) is done to the same high standards that are found in the secular (non christian) markets.

 

So this means that having the right kit is a priority to make sure that best possible production can be facilitated. And this necesitates the spend on kit. Having industry insiders helps, as it means that they can secure the best kit at 'special' prices.

 

The church can also be a good training ground for the tech world. I learn all the basics at church, as I was pretty much the only one who was on the sound. Since then I've gone on to own my own hire company. And there are plenty of others out there in a simillar position.

 

The churches that are growing tend to have realised that the message of the bible is the same, but that the world has changed, and that the message needs to be conveyed in a manner that is conversant with society today. Preaching from a pulpit doesn't work too well. If it did, every marketing company would use it. However multimedia presentations do, hence the growing use in churches.

[Yorkie]

Every church has the money that it's members give for its mission, and they all choose to spend it in different ways. Large technical setups are the sort of thing that some churches will feel that they want to put a lot of money into. Other churches will invest large amounts of money in more traditional things, like pipe organs and choirs. Lots of churches reject the ideas of using Projected lyrics, etc on the basis of cost. Of course once the cost of various hymnbooks is taken into account then this soon becomes negligible.

 

Regrettably, the church can sometimes be just one part of a great number of organisations that expect to get brilliant quality from not much money. Like all not-for-profit organisations, it doesn't have cash to spare. Lots of churches seem to be sorting things out and realising what an investment some good quality tech-stuff can be.

 

Depending on whether or not it's term time I worship at one or other of two churches. One allegedly spent £18k on its sound system last summer, and the other has an old 100v line amp, long lengths of unbalanced cable, and a mound of miscellaneous junk.

[/rant] (can you guess which one I'm almost moaning about)

[Dave W]

I have four churches within a mile radius of my house all different denominations (sp?). Three of them aren't doing too well on the sound/light/visuals front but thats because they consist of old grannies who go to church because the idea of hell scares them. The other church is an eveangelical church and has many families and afluent members in its congregation. This means that it has a lot more money to spend and even has remotely controlable cameras to show the preacher on two rear projection screens! It is all about the congregation IMO, and you must remember, not all churches do want high tech equipment and are happy to go without.

[Tomo]

In general, the places that have crazy numbers of moving lights, huge sound systems etc are American evangelical churches.

 

Draw your own conclusions as to why that is, but in the UK you won't find many churches with vast amounts of quality kit.

Generally churches get the bare minimum they think they can get away with - after all, entertainment isn't their primary purpose!

[the kid]

I've spoken to some one who went to a evangelical church in America he said it was about 2000 seater place(not sure on figure) when you think about it 2000 people x $1 donation = $2000 and thats a minimum im sure many will give $5.

[allsounds]

this has made interesting reading for me - thanks for info, greatly appreciated

happy new year to you all

Matt

[mac.calder]

I think a lot of the money for extra things like sound and lights also comes from the wills of passed on members of the congregation. There were 5 churches in my old home town which owned (between them) 23 houses, the only supermarket and a small trinket shop/opshop, all of which were bequethed by the congregation. They sell a house, they make $150-200k...