Health and safety in schools

[dfinn]

Hello,

 

Since having a new install in our school the rules have become tighter and tighter on what we can or mainly cant do. Now this doesnt afect me as much because I do sound but for the lighting crew its a big problem.

 

We cannot go up ladders or turn on the main power switch which is a right pair because our school hall is too big for our lighting tower wehich so far we can go up.

 

Anyway I just wondered if any one knows what students can/ cant do. this used to be the case just for yr 7 - 11 as 6th formers used ot eb able to do this but now no students can.

 

If anyone knows how it would make it possible for us to go up ladders wether it be harsnesses to the LX bar, a training course on how to use ladders :blink: (zarges), or anything else I would most appreciate it.

 

Thanks

 

Daniel

[Brian]

Since most health and safety stuff is now risk assessment based there is no list which says 'In year 7 you may do this, in year 11 you may do this'.

 

If you are under 18 then there are special considerations because of your lack of experience and your lack of 'awareness'.

 

If you are now unable to do things which others have previously done, then it sounds as though someone at your school has done a risk assessment and decided that certain activities are too much of a hazard or have too much risk attached to them to allow pupils to undertake them. You might not agree with their decision, we might not agree with their decision, but it's their decision. They are the ones who are legally responsible for your safety and it's their call.

 

If you think that things haven't been properly considered and it's just a blanket ban then ask to see a copy of the risk assessment.

 

As for access methods, there is a lot of information on the problems associated with it elsewhere on the Blue Room; have a good read of it. It's not just about going on a training course. The whole working method has to be considered along with equipment suitability. And then there is the need to consider rescue methods if you get stuck.

[TomBrien]

What year are you in, as mentioned above age can play a big part in what you can or can't do, when in main school (years 7-11) we could not do much apart from use consoles and set up sound equipment, now in 6th form, we can basicly do what ever we want as long as there is no law stating that we can't i.e. can't use pyro still. I would just talk to the person who is telling you what you can and can't do, but don't get pushy with them or they may well decide to not let you do anything.

 

Hope this helps

 

Tom

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

I will be enquiring today,

 

cheers

 

Daniel

[Brixton]

Why not use the system to change your circumstances?

According to PUWER an SSOW (safe system of work) is applicable when there are hazards from

Plant - ladders/towers etc.

Dangerous places - heights

If you cannot go up a ladder to change a bulb / rig a bar then ask them to get a pulley system installed so you can do the neccessary from the ground

Employers have a duty to do whatever is "reasonably practicable" to protect their workers.

Educational establishments are always skint but they always have money to do Health and Safety stuff.

It wouldn't cost too much to get some pulleys affixed to the existing bars with some rope thus creating a manual hemp-set.

You could then rig/de-rig etc. at ground level

 

(facts from page 11 level 2 health and safety handbook

unit 4 work equipment

Network training publishing

www.network-publishing.co.uk )

[paulears]

As people in charge in schools and colleges rarely have any technical skills, maybe the way is to show them some of the BTEC specs (www.edexcel.org.uk - look for BTEC). If you show them what typical 16-20 people have to do to pass, they may see that they have been a little cautious. It would be daft if they prevented you from getting a qualification by banning something as 'dangerous' when its inclusion in a national qualification suggests the content is deemed ok? In a couple, safe working practices with ladder access is mentioned - 'rig a lighting bar' wouldn't be much use on the ground?

[Brian]

Educational establishments are always skint but they always have money to do Health and Safety stuff.

 

Really? A school I know of, when faced with a potential bill of around £20k to rewire the stage and install new dimmers and patching, simply turned it all off. Now there is no stage lighting.

 

It wouldn't cost too much to get some pulleys affixed to the existing bars with some rope thus creating a manual hemp-set.

 

I think you'd be suprised at how much it would cost to do it properly. I doubt that the stage/foh area has fixing points in the right place to take any pulleys, you've then got to site the diverters somewhere and provide either a winch or somewhere to tie things off. Then you've got to extend the electrics and provide a way of taking up the slack.

 

I'd be expecting somewhere around £2k per bar. Which represents the total annual budget for many departments in a school.

[dfinn]

hmm just thought or a really clever solution.

 

Get an extension to our lighting tower. Its only 2ft short of rigging heigh required. How much would say a 2 - 3 ft height extension be on a zarges lighting tower? and if its above 2.6m do I require any harnesses etc?

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

[Simon Lewis]

Daniel,

 

Ask Zarges about the cost, but check whether the tower is designed to take the extra height (depends on the base area and stabilisers etc.).

 

However, your school has probably revised its risk assessments in light of the new Work at Height Regulations 2005. Consequently, I would enquire what your school considers to be a safe system of work, before badgering them for another stage for the tower system.

 

Incidently, what would you attach a harness to? Clip onto the tower, and a fall would bend / break the alumninium bar, or pull the tower over. If you are working at 2.6m, a fall arrest lanyard won't deploy safely. Furthermore, use of harnesses requires training, inspection, rescue plans and is seen as a last resort, rather than something to be encouraged ;-)

 

Simon

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

Yeh the harness was just a stupid thought but now you said all those things its probably safer without.

 

I am going to get my school to get in touch with the company who sold us the tower to see what they say.

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

[Jivemaster]

Your school also have to find supevisory skills among the non curriculum assets that come and go with staff. My school were lucky when a new maths teacher arrived - he was an approved electrician and a very competant musician. A later year was less fortunate when he was appointed head of maths elsewhere.

.

Your school also has to find and pay for insurance, and the insurers terms and prices will govern what they may permit.

[AaronHorn]

Just to add my thoughts and experiences to this:-

 

I am a sixth former at a state school and as such funds are limited. Although I won't be doing anymore lighting work now (finish soon :)), when I did, I had a pretty free run. Two years ago the school hired a technician who as a part of his job deals with the theatre... Is this you? Or are you also a student? Before then dodgy things happened but this was before my time.

 

Originally we hired zarge ladders from building companies and as such were somewhat dodgy so only the payed employee (insured) used them. I am competent with the things but still the school like most round here has a blanket rule: No students on ladders.

 

To do the bigger shows we had scaff towers which were ok and sixth formers were generally allowed to climb them. Eventually on the technician and his line manager were satisfied that these things could be used reasonably safely and therefore brought one on the condition that the caretakers could use it for access work (although they complain they don't know 'how' to). To add to my point above the actually point of 'the' safest way is ignored here, it just gets around the rules as such.

 

The bean counter came along and decided it would be a good idea to have hard hats for those working on the tower which has actually proved quite a good idea - although they look silly; senior managers and the caretakers don't seem to glare so much at a student climbing a tower.

 

As for mains switching, currently our dimmers are completely portable and are fed of radial spurs from a consumer unit just above the sockets. We often pop the (underrated) CEE sockets and have now had the cabinet permanently unlocked to allow use to isolate the sockets from there and reset the MCBs (I think they are the wrong type can't recall which type but turning the dimmer off via the switch 5/10 times pops them).

 

I have helped to wire plugs for an amount of parcans we ordered but this was actually supervised and checked over by the technician first.

 

My biggest worry is that we put the tower up quite quickly now (used quite a bit now) but on a bit of a whim and a prayer; that is to say none of us have been trained on the proper erection (sorry couldn't think of a better word) of the tower. Another thing management does like is the use of outriggers but IMO we don't use them properly - it makes them happy at least.

 

This post is possibly a bit of ramble since it is quite late now but I'd like to know about other's situations within the schools and stuff.

[ChrisD]

Our school has just had a complete re-think. Permanent rig, 6 people only allowed to use any equipment like a desk (not me, although I am considered by the aforementioned 6 as the most competent lighting designer/op), and "professional training" for those select 6.

 

We have several towers, not sure where any of them came from. All of them are often erected in a slapdash and careless manner. We also have Zarges ladders, both of which have become damaged after under a year of ownership through misuse (how F****** hard is it?). Somewhat ironically, it's those who enforce the health and safety rules (site manager etc) who constantly misuse the ladders.

 

My most major concern is the distinct lack of PAT testing. We've just had our dimmers replaced, and a buddle of new lights and our "perfect" Permanent rig. (installed by a p****). The racks were installed by a qualified sparky. None of the old kit has been PAT tested in years. I tell people NOT to use kit (because I can see bare live wires) and they just carry on. And when I suggest that the kit should be PAT tested, people just plain ignore me. It's only time before someone's pointing a par and end up doing a peter pan impression.

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

I am a yr 11 student but being a 6th former only gives me the opwer to turn on the power ** laughs out loud **. 6th fromers used to be allowed to go up ladders but now no one can go up except 1 caretaker.

 

We Have a zarges tower and are allowed to go up that but it is only big enough for our studio lighting rig. Me and the 6th form technician have asked for a meeting with our head of performing arts and the headteacher to get something done as we cannot work in our brand new hall rig. Well it isnt so much me as im a sound tech but I kinda represent all my school on here and ask qs for em.

 

Anyway I think the easiest solution is to get an extension to the tower which would allow us to work in the hall rig. I feel safe an zarges ladders which reach fine in our hall but due to health and safety we cannot go up them.

 

Thanks

 

Daniel

[TomBrien]

Well I'm lucky that our site manager just 'left' (not of his own choice) and the two guys doing the job now come to me with any stage related technical things, so I can basically do all the rig etc my self (with aid of my team), with there help when needed. So I can do anything from setting up a tape desk for a french exam (thats a point I need to do that next week) to moving ladders from one end of the school to the other (we have three ladders, two large step laders ,different heights for different halls, and one hook over ladder which I have now decided is now longer safe as the rubber floor pads have corroded) to going up said ladders moving lights, focusing, rigging, and turning on the juice :) with no questions asked (cross fingers) but it is worth pointing out as I said before that I have experience in the industry and have been employed in it.

 

So my advise is get on well with site managers as they tend to then agree that it is safer than playing football in the yard.