Health and safety in schools

[BigMike]

Hi Daniel,

 

When I was in school we were attached to a medium sized production theatre. With the rules with any ladders, scaff towers, or scopes we were not aloud up them. I think that would in reality be the law. It is a very gray area as I was stuck in the same position as you are now and I hated being told not to go up them as you proberly do. Back then the message I had got was either you were 18+ or trained to use the towers. The course I took in college (not a 6 form) was purely technical (as most include dance and acting) I had formal training on how to use, put up and take down ladders, scaff towers, scopes, etc. I really would say either you need advise from the schools insurance company or stick it out till your 18 if you are going into the industry, if you need to use ladders for the course you are doing then I don't know what to say. You should not come across this problem at 18 and its much better then wondering whetter you should be moving a Mac500 from one bar to the next or not.

 

Mike.

[weatherhead]

In our school, up until a few weeks ago, students were allowed to do everything, unless it was to do with heights. We have an unbranded :)! scaffold, which if we need to adjust anything, must be rigged by the caretaking staff, who have no interest in the matter and are generally very unfriendly. Once they have thrown it together (I use the word thrown deliberately because a two year old could build a better scaffold with a LEGO kit) a teacher must be coaxed into mounting the beast, usually very unstable from the way it has been put up, and changing the rig under my direction. We have always been allowed to set up and op the PA, oh sorry "sound reinforcement", and up until recently, were allowed to patch and op the lighting system. This is a good story -

To say our technician department is on a shoestring budget is a little generous - the amount spent on anything in that way related this year amounts to a big fat £0. Most of our gear has not been PAT tested since 1999 which is an issue we have frequently raised with the school's employed technicians, our latest move being to refuse to do anything and dumping all the equipment in a pile backstage. Well, our original lighting rig was installed when the school was built, it's a hardwired affair that seems to work by some kind of black magic. If PAT tested it would certainly be condemned. We are always very careful when using this rig, and have never had problems. More recently (about twenty years ago) an extra tap was put into the loop, which runs off the same 60 amp supply, but allows the plugging in of dimmer racks, on large 230V blue plugs. When myself and my teamate Jon first inherited this system, we checked it all over and the first thing that came to light was - although an RCD had been installed on the new part of the system, there was no master fuse anywhere. We raised this at the time, and it had been raised by our predecessor. We were very careful with the system and never overloaded it, until a recent year 8 talent show. Me and Jon hate crappy little lack of talent - shows, and they always seem to want flashy lights, loud music etc, and are generally when anything that can go wrong will go wrong. On this particular talent show, we were forced ( by the lack of PAT tested equipment) to overload the system. The inevitable happened - the RCD doesn't trip with a gradual load, and the bloody caravan style plugs actually melted together. No I #### you not, the live pins melted together. The only way we could get them apart was to isolate, and borrow a hacksaw. After this little incident the technicians told us they were "getting a qualified electrician in to see what's wrong with it - that shouldn't be happening, and it was very dangerous". We have told them what's wrong with it and that it's very dangerous about 5 times in all, and nothing. Well that was several weeks ago, no electrician has appeared. Students are no longer allowed to do "anything", from patching dimmer racks to moving a f***ing channel fader. The upshot of all this, of course is that no concerts or productions can happen. The main reason for this, and I see it in all schools I visit, is that no one other than the students who are interested know what they are doing, and no - one in the school is directly responsible for the upkeep or budget for this equipment. The music and drama departments in our school have now decided they are stopping performances of any kind until they get some money to actually sort things out, and get us a proper rig installed. I have left the school now, being in year 11, and have recommended to the school exactly what I would put in the system, how much it would cost, with detailed schematics and diagrams. Ah well, it won't happen of course, but it's a damned shame that we now have four bars of fixtures hanging up there like dead birds, because someone didn't install safety features when they built the thing

[paulears]

While I appreciate your frustrations, the content of the most worries me even more.

 

More recently (about twenty years ago) an extra tap was put into the loop, which runs off the same 60 amp supply, but allows the plugging in of dimmer racks, on large 230V blue plugs. When myself and my teamate Jon first inherited this system, we checked it all over and the first thing that came to light was - although an RCD had been installed on the new part of the system, there was no master fuse anywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you know it's a 60 amp supply? Unless installed live, there must be a circuit fuse and isolator somewhere - maybe in a master switch room, locked away. Nothing wrong with large blue plugs - The fact that they are there shows the installation has been modified at some stage with modern, approved connectors - the RCD adds to this.

 

On this particular talent show, we were forced ( by the lack of PAT tested equipment) to overload the system. The inevitable happened - the RCD doesn't trip with a gradual load, and the bloody caravan style plugs actually melted together. No I #### you not, the live pins melted together. The only way we could get them apart was to isolate, and borrow a hacksaw.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nobody forced you to deliberately overload the supply - you made the choice yourself. As you obviously doubt the installation, this overloading is even more unforgivable. If you had pat tested kit, the result would have been the same. An overload is an overoad, PAT or not. You mention you isolated - How? What on earth were school students doing HACKSAWING a mains connection. Not your job - REPEAT - not your job. Not your teachers, or the caretaking staff - an ELECTRICIANS!!!

Students are no longer allowed to do "anything", from patching dimmer racks to moving a f***ing channel fader.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you were my students - you wouldn't be allowed anywhere near electricity - YOU ARE DANGEROUS

 

Sorry, that's it really.

 

I admit the shows stopping is annoying, but under the circumstances the only way to preserve peoples lives, by the sound of it.

 

It should have gone like this in the risk assessment - suspect supply problem. Action - don't use it until checked.

 

NOT - lets plug it up and melt things!

 

This may seem harsh, but I would have thought you were lucky not to have been suspended and hung from on high.......

[kerry davies]

Thank you Paul. I am increasingly concerned about the level of "student" involvement in technical theatre on various threads on the site. Just because a teacher is somewhere in the building, the room or even alongside the student does not mean it's "OK". Supervision by a "qualified" person, competent to do so is necessary in any educational establishment to fulfill the requirements of their insurance. Students are not production staff and should never be used as such, particularly so on events where an entrance fee is charged. I admit that there has been a culture of "making do" in education in order to produce shows but those days are gone. The bottom line is that if an insurance company investigate any accident where ALL rules, regulations and recommendations have not been followed they will not pay out. At a college theatre in Gloucestershire the insurers suspended the cover on the entire college and everyone in it when they found paint stored under the wooden stage. (Not even oil-based but emulsion).

Please don't climb anything unless trained.

Please leave power alone unless qualified.

Please check your insurance cover.

Please ask "supervisors" about their competence.

I appreciate you are all immortal, I was about thirty years ago, but you may just kill one of us old farts by acts OR omissions.

Live Long and Prosper!

[paulears]

I think the one thing that comes out of the posts all over the Blue Room is that there are loads of very keen people at school who want to do great things with lighting and sound. The snag, as I see it, is that the places they want to do it are not entertainment venues, but schools. Very often kit has been bought when a member of staff who knew what they were on about worked there. S/he moves on and is replaced by somebody who instead of being an industry professional who became a teacher, is a teacher who probably trained as a drama specialist. From this moment on, any form of technical input becomes zero. Support from technician services may or may not be theatre minded. Some technicians have a theatre background, others don't. If you have a non-skilled teacher and technician you are in trouble. If, as seems to be happening, students are pursuading staff that because they have skills that the staff don't, that they effectively become 'in-charge' - then a very dangerous precedent is emerging. With very few exceptions, despite these skills, advanced as many are, anyone who is technically a student (i.e. advancing their education) and under 18 cannot be a competent person as defined in the usual way. My view is that our profession is viewed by outsiders as more dangerous than it really is, and that this view of us is reinforced by their perception of the things we visibly do. There is no way that the well meant, but dangerous activities often described in this and other forums (fora?) would be tollerated in the construction or medical worlds - but somehow, we are letting it be 'ok' in ours?

 

As I've often mentioned, in many schools and colleges there is NO risk assessment process at all, even worse, in some, it exists but is a paperwork excercise only - something to put in the filing cabinet.

 

We must - it's vital, keep our inductry safe. This means restricting some of the activities that are being carried out in schools. Colleges are a little better, because of student age, but not much. It is difficult for the students, who are keen, and I feel for them, BUT some incredibly stupid things are being done that can easily kill. Overloads that melt connectors, internal access to power supplies - including being miffed at a student supplied padlock being cut off all make me shudder - the archives show loads more dangerous activities.

 

Now is the time to make sure that everyone pulls together to discourage these activities before somebody really gets hurt!

 

Sorry all - I didn't want to go off on one, but it's getting silly, and these types of posts just serve to encourage more well meaning, but unskilled people to try dangerous things themselves

Paul

[P. Funk]

I can only really echo what all the other students have said.

 

I've just finished 6th form, being one of about 3 people in the school that takes an interest in technical theatre. Up until a few months ago, the "Health & Safety Officer" probably didnt know we *had* a scaff tower (until someone else took over the role).

 

There is *no* PA Testing on the lighting rig, *no* risk assessment, and hardly any rules in place as to who can do what. We have the scaff tower safety sorted out (as the tower itself was new a few years back) - 4-6 students are trained every year on using it (professionally), and those 4-6 are allowed to erect and use it, as long as its checked over by a competant member of staff.

 

We've been carrying out repairs on lighting equipment ourselves, because noone else will do it, and we don't want to gradually lose our lighting rig. The situation is the same as others have said - there's just no knowledge of technical theatre or health and safety in the school (barring the site manager and an assistant head - who think they know).

[Simon Lewis]

If PAT tested it would certainly be condemned.

 

Rule no.1 if it's unsafe (either by actual test or visual inspection) it doesn't get used.

 

although an RCD had been installed on the new part of the system, there was no master fuse anywhere.

 

If true, this raises a host of legal and safety issues. However, we're back to rule no.1 : if it's unsafe it doesn't get used.

 

However, I'd be suprised if there was absolutely no fuse backing up these outlets. There must be a fuse in the supply board, if not the main incomer. Whether it is of the correct rating is another matter.

The RCD is not a fuse, and will not act as one. There is a possibility that it was fitted with an RCBO which acts as both RCD and MCB.

 

A little comment - if I may. As Paulears mentions, if a student had knowingly used an unsafe system, or caused damage through deliberate overload, I would have treated it as a disciplinary offence.

Furthermore, given that you have future employers reading your posts, do bear in mind that your youthful mistakes might make them less keen to employ you...

 

Simon

[DSA]

As part of the system at the moment, this makes very interesting reading. There is no doubt that I am amazed at what 'weatherhead' has said above and it raises some very serious questions (which have mostly been already mentioned).

 

When I was at secondary school last year we did have access to access equipment, and quite a 'trust' situation was taken between the caretakers and students. It was agreed that only more senior pupils would use the access equipment and that a parental letter would be brought it. We have discussed that bit before so I needn't go into it here - but I was interested to hear that in the last year someone had been seen by a member of staff to be using the tower without permission - and indeed was using it dangerously. As a result, all access equipment was witheld until 'formal training' had taken place. Now I don't know all the ins and outs, but it seems very interesting that it took an incident before this occurred.

 

It does strike me that the major problem is supervision. Here in Bristol, someone is employed (quite rightly) as H&S Officer. He oversees all RAs and things like rope checks, but I have never ever seen him in the venue during rehearsals or a performance - it is only ever fellow students. OK so some of us may be mid 20s, but in the eyes of the law that makes them no more 'competent'.

 

Our internal training scheme is all well and good, but it just leads to things happening like: "x, we need a SM for the next show - you are doing the SM qualification, I am sure we could sign you off". In other words people are getting 'qualified' before they are necessarily ready. It horiffies me that things like storing carpets in the pit is taking place when the licenese specifically states that no flammable items should be stored there. This is even more of a worry after I believe they were told to remove the hardboard stored in there last year by an inspector.

 

There are certainly RAs, and I believe that they are reviewed yearly, but they stay in a file in a cupboard somewhere usually unread. It appears to be seen as an exercise for the equipment manager to do. I brought up the question of Manual Handling at the AGM, and was met with the response of the sort that "well its obvious, and we are a student outfit - we can't/don't have the resources to do everything to the book". I shall leave it there, but that is just one of many gripes I have. Another is that of no pit rail - a good metres drop, but no RA that I have seen.

 

I try to take safety matters very seriously, as that is what I have been trained and have learnt to do (not actually mainly because of the theatre), but it is clear that not everyone does. However until there is an accident in a student venue it does appear that a fair amount is not 'properly done'. I could be very wrong here, but what I am seeing is people thinking that its OK, when if there was a problem then it may not be. This is possibly because the staff do not know what is correct.

 

I apologise if someone is reading this from Bristol, but this is how I see it and this is my own opinion.

 

David

 

P.S. It is very hard for me to write a post like this as it makes me out to be some sort of saint, which is clearly not the case. I don't want to sound like a 'knowitall' but these are just some of my observations.

[gareth]

If you were my students - you wouldn't be allowed anywhere near electricity - YOU ARE DANGEROUS

 

Sorry, that's it really.

 

I admit the shows stopping is annoying, but under the circumstances the only way to preserve peoples lives, by the sound of it.

 

It should have gone like this in the risk assessment - suspect supply problem. Action - don't use it until checked.

 

NOT - lets plug it up and melt things! 

 

This may seem harsh, but I would have thought you were lucky not to have been suspended and hung from on high.......

I've pretty much kept out of this topic so far, but I just want to say that I agree completely with Paul - you guys (i.e. the chap who openly bragged about him and his mates using unsafe equipment, deliberately overloading the power supply and then hacksawing the mains connectors apart without supervision) are a liability, and you're lucky to be alive. If you believed the equipment to be unsafe, you shouldn't have been using it, full stop. Everyone, whether they're school staff, external contractors or students, has the same duty of care to ensure that the working environment in the performance space is as safe as it can possibly be. If that meant that no productions happened, well, that's just too bad. It's only a show, and contrary to popular belief the show does not have to go on. A school concert is definitely not worth someone sustaining severe injuries or, worse, losing their life.

 

I also have to agree with Kerry's expression of concern over the apparent abilities (or lack of them) of some of the people contributing tho the forum who are school pupils taking almost complete responsibility for the running of the technical installations in their school theatres. We've all got to learn somewhere, but doing it more-or-less unsupervised, with dodgy gear, by a process of trial and error is so not the way forward, especially when one of those 'errors' could be the last one you or one of your colleagues ever make.

 

Sorry to turn this topic into what must seem like a load of killjoys spoiling your fun - but what's fun about running the incredibly stupid risk of working with live electrical equipment which you know not to be safe, and doing stupid things like deliberately overloading the available power supply despite having full knowledge that what you're doing is wrong?

 

I was lucky when I was in school - we had a teacher who actually took an interest in the lighting in the drama studio, and his 'supervision' of us was very much a hands-on affair, instead of just sitting in a corner marking homework while a bunch of spotty fourth-years risked life and limb in the grid. And by the time he left, a year or so after I first got in with the school's 'lighting team', I had managed to get involved with my local professional theatre and by virtue of that involvement I was able to learn a lot about the right and wrong way to do things. All I can suggest to all you guys and gals who are unnecessarily (and, quite possibly, unknowingly) taking all sorts of silly risks with your school's lighting and sound rigs on a regular basis is that you get involved with some sort of organisation where you can start to learn how to do these things properly and safely. Youth theatre groups, local amateur theatres, even professional venues if they are amenable to letting you go and hang around in the holidays and help out occasionally. But don't just carry on regardless - no-one's immortal, and it would be terrible to find that out the hard way.

 

End of rant! :)

[J Pearce]

When I was at secondary school, if a piece of equipment was found faulty it came off the rig, had its plug cut off (stop anyone using it) and was in due course (5 months usually) repaired.

I was trained (professionally) to use the scaffold and the caretaker set it up for me every time. There was a teacher/technician but he was usually busy around show time as he was responsible for exam entries. However earlier he trained the crew, and nominated the eldest in the crew for scaff training. he then oversaw what we did. Every year we struck the entire rig for PAT testing and took time to mark our lanterns as ours (touring amdrams had a habit of sending them to hire companies) and clean them replace lenses/bulbs etc.

 

It always worked well, and we tried to keep 4 lanterns in a fixed position with a facial gel in them so we could light the stage or the floor immediately in front of the stage without having to set up the scaff.

 

Now I am at sixth form and once again we have a very similar system. We are fortunate to have a very good lighting technician whose main job is to teach electronics, however in his free periods he looks after the lighting and sound.

He has been there for 30 years and every time the rig is upgraded the old stuff is held on to and repaired so we now have lots of gear, 2 people have been trained in erecting and using scaff safely and we run the rig (and sound) in conjunction with this teacher.

 

I have never had a problem with safety, although I have been fortunate enough to have enthusiastic teachers and helpful site services.

[Russ]

This thread disappoints me, because I have known a lot of 15/16/17 year olds who were/are fully capable of working unsupervised in a theatre perfectly safely. I like to think that I was one of them - when I was involved with theatre at school it was operated at a higher standard of health and safety than the school's own maintenance department (which isn't much of an achievment I have to say...).

 

I think maybe, delving into the realms of the psychological here for the moment, some students are interested in backstage because of the element of risk - despite the fact that in modern backstage there should be no (or at least very little) risk. Perhaps students are deprived of risk so much in school that they end up doing disproportionately stupid things. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. End tangent.

[J Pearce]

No work with electricity or at heights should ever be done alone, what if you fall or end up shocking yourself, who's going to call the ambulance?

[Russ]

By "unsupervised" I didn't mean alone, heh. I just meant without supervision of a teacher/whoever. I meant to clarify that but kind of forgot.

 

Of course doesn't Health and Safety say that you can't let minors do that sort of stuff anyway? So the point is kind of moot.

 

(I swear there are people lurking in this forum just to catch people out on the slightest slip of the mind :))

[V.A.]

I just thought that I'd stick up for the students a bit here. I agree that alot of what has been mentioned about their activities in this thread is extremely worrying if not downright stupid, but there are a lot of us students who do work safely!

 

I'm sure I speak for the great majority of students here when I say that we do try to follow established procedure, are very aware of our own safety, and wouldn't dream of doing anything which didn't fall within our exact area of knowledge.

 

For example, one of the things I do at school is lighting. Yes, I do in effect run the team and am incharge of equipment and people using it. HOWEVER, this does not mean that I am fool hardy, or consider myself an expert or invincible. I will freely admit that there is a hell of a lot which I don't know. My expertise regarding repairs stretches about as far as fitting a new bulb, and I don't do anything beyond that. Both me and the Head of Drama are in regular contact with the local lighting hire/installation shop, and anything we are not totally sure of gets referred to them.

 

I am allowed to rig without supervision (although of course I do have at least 1 other person in the room with me when I do), but that is after nearly 3 years of direct supervision and training from the Head of Drama, who now trusts me to work safely by myself. I do have my limits though - there are certain activities which I know it is dangerous for me to do, and I don't do them, a good example is rigging floods above the stage - I'm not exactly the tallest of people, and the ladder leaves me about a foot short of where I need to be. I could reach if I were to stand on the top and lift the flood with both hands (therefore not holding on), and I have seen people do it, but it's obvious that such an activity would be dangerous for me, hence I don't do it. It either doesn't get done, or somebody taller does it. I do also supervise other people up the ladder when the Head of Drama is not available for direct supervision, however I am an experienced first aider (as is she), and she is always either in the room or very close by when I'm doing this.

 

This is just a small example of the procedures which I follow at my school, I could go on but I don't particularly want to bore everyone. I'm sure, though, that similar safeguards to those I have mentioned are in use at a great majority of schools around the country. Please don't tar us all with the same brush!

[paulears]

The snag is that your sense of danger and risk develop as you get older (if - you get older).

 

I'm the first to own up. When I was 16, I was in the same position as many of you - the only technical person working on shows in a smallish local authority theatre. For one show I built 20 flash boxes. Well, actually lumps of timber screwed to the floor with two nails soldered to mains cable. In between, I belted a nice little depresion with a hammer and filled it with flash powder (no nice little plastic pots then). The controller was a load of mains pushbuttons. Accross each pile of powder I placed a single piece of wire (actually one strand of mic cable braid, if I remember right). Hitting the button sent 240v down the line, blowing the 'fuse' igniting the powder. isolation was pulling the mans plug out.

 

At the time I did this, I was POSITIVE I was in control and the system, because I designed it, was safe. TOTAL RUBBISH!!! I should never have been allowed to do this, but, supervision was by somebody who was a luvvie, and the effect was remarkable - totally justifiying my work.

 

I appreciate that nobody (well, almost nobody) does dangerous things on purpose, but my point is that lack of experience prevents you actually realising you are doing daft things.

 

Watch your back - those places that do let you take charge, will almost certainly drop you right in it when something happens. And when something serious does happen, who will get believed? The experienced teacher who of course, wouldn't have dreamed of sending a 15yr old up a damaged ladder, or the over eager student too keen for his own good. Remember the ads "have you had an accident........"

Do you have it in writing that you can do these things - I bet not!

paul