Health and safety in schools

[djw1981]

1.

As I understand it, all schools need an entertainments licence for their venue - school hall etc. Therefore the licence holder in the school is responsible for all lighting/power/rigging issues. This is the person who needs to ensure that the insurance is sufficient, and who will carry the can if you have a fire / rigging accident etc - as it would be in a more mainstream venue.

 

2.

I know of a school where a friend was the teacher. They had a show on, and he had had a couple of friends who were professional lampies come in and set the rig for him. Health and safety did an inspection and were happy with it, but said they had cancelled two school shows that week due to infringement of licence or unsafe rigging / electrics.

 

We can go on about H&S not knowing two hoots about the tech industry, but it shows they are now targeting 'easy prey' - ie those most likely to have mistakes. The H&S Inspector said that every school applying to renew its licence in that local authority would be receiving a full inspection both before the licence was renewed and during any advertised shows. As a result the council was talking of either employing a tech adviser for schools, or contracting a local hire company to help schools meet H&S regs - good news at last IMHO.

[Russ]

As I understand it, all schools need an entertainments licence for their venue - school hall etc. Therefore the licence holder in the school is responsible for all lighting/power/rigging issues. This is the person who needs to ensure that the insurance is sufficient, and who will carry the can if you have a fire / rigging accident etc - as it would be in a more mainstream venue.

 

Although as far as I know, all the council will do in response to this is revoke your license. However, you have an obligation to report the accident to the HSE and your insurers who will probably be more interested.

 

I know of a school where a friend was the teacher. They had a show on, and he had had a couple of friends who were professional lampies come in and set the rig for him. Health and safety did an inspection and were happy with it, but said they had cancelled two school shows that week due to infringement of licence or unsafe rigging / electrics.

 

Interesting, it must depend on the area because I think I've only seen an H&S inspector once ever, and it wasn't in a theatre (although I suspect that quite a lot of productions I've worked on have been unlicensed - I have no reason to care about this because I haven't been responsible for it).

 

We can go on about H&S not knowing two hoots about the tech industry, but it shows they are now targeting 'easy prey' - ie those most likely to have mistakes. The H&S Inspector said that every school applying to renew its licence in that local authority would be receiving a full inspection both before the licence was renewed and during any advertised shows. As a result the council was talking of either employing a tech adviser for schools, or contracting a local hire company to help schools meet H&S regs - good news at last IMHO.

 

Interesting. Does that apply to Occasional Theatre Licenses too? Because we go through quite a lot of them yearly and it would be amusing (although not terribly inconvenient for us) to see them inspect us every single time. Especially since the fee is waived :huh:.

 

P.S

Method statement for crossing the road?

1) Cross the road

[djw1981]

I don't know. I think it seemed like a good idea in theory but possibly beurocratic and we all know that if councils need to do more work then the cost of a licence could go up.

 

Aparently, the inspector was quite positive it woule be happening in that local authorty area soon, but thats only one of 300 or so councils in the UK!

[Brian]

Interesting. Does that apply to Occasional Theatre Licenses too? Because we go through quite a lot of them yearly and it would be amusing (although not terribly inconvenient for us) to see them inspect us every single time. Especially since the fee is waived :huh:.

From Novemebr this year there is no such things due to the new licensing laws.

[Russ]

Aha, I seeee. But it appears it's being replaced by Temporary Event Notices which are both easier and cheaper (and it includes an on-license for free?). Bargain.

[Brian]

But, any one venue can only have 12 TENs in a year. So that means on average only one event a month.

 

 

[EDIT]

 

Moderators - this will probably need a topic split soon.

[Jivemaster]

Inspectors develop a sixth sense! If they see wet-string electrics and people milling around uncontrolled., they will be back in a while. If they see a well organised group with plans to conform -7671 -7909 etc and the venue licence t&c's then they may not trouble you so often. There never will be enough inspectors to visit all venues every show. This does however mean that if an inspector finds fault they may be very firm in their application of the law / standards /ACoPs

[Andy!]

How old do you have to be to take a Health and Safety course for schools. Is there a certain course you have to take due to it being a school? Andy

[Chris Higgs]

It's not your responsibility. The school are responsible.

You are a 'young person' and cannot be 'exposed to serious risk'.

We all have to start sometime, though.

 

Why not call a local safety training place and ask what they could do?

Trouble is the cost, the school may not be able to afford what they charge the rest of the world.

 

Try the education authority - perhaps they have something they can recommend, maybe some links with a local lighting company or something.

Councils often have basic courses in various topics. I doubt they have anything theatre related.

ABTT are an obvious choice, too. The annual summer school perhaps?

 

If it increases the things you will be allowed to do at school, I don't know, I wouldn't think so; BUT it does start you off if you are headed in that direction careerwise.

 

HTH

[greateastern]

Hi,

 

I've been trying to read through this thread in order to work out what my school is doing wrong. Turns out I might find it easier to count (on one hand) what they are doign right!

 

Anyone is allowed to clime the tallie, altho we are meant to have teacher supervision this rarely happens. The stabilisers are rarely deplyed and at least 2 of the breaks regularly forgotten on the grounds that once appliued they do not release. The mechanism for folding it has broken as well making that a scary experience. Our bars have enough cable but were never fitted with pullies to allow them to lower so the tallie is used for everything. Electrically nothing has had a PAT test since the fire that burnt the last hall down and new kit since has never seen a test - including dimmers, desks and lights. I condemed (I'm no sparky but I couldn't think of a better word) a light for bare wires being present but I saw someone trying to reinstate it the other day Teachers keep out of the way as do maintenance staff. No hard hats or steelies are required (according to the school) or used. No one has any idea about the H&S and a proper RA never seems to have been done.

 

A fair way to sum up the situation would be that we have fairly free reign - our music director does help but has to leave a lot to use due to his other commitments. Anyone who gets on our informal team which changes from event to event can do anything and H&S is not implemented. A fire (previously mentioned on BR) was never reported despite my attempts and the extinguishers are where I was told to leave them.

 

If anything went wrong the insurers aren't gonna pay out as far as I can see and someone in the school agrees, she has an H&S background but is not on the tech team. Should I ask and get something done? Or is not my responsibility? I keep my safe with steelies and sensible practice but is it my duty to do anything for everyone else? If something went wrong and I was involved would I be liable?

 

Sorry if all this has been covered but having used the search function I find myself drowned by 6+ page threads!

 

Andy

[travis1234]

When I was at school few years back (im not that old!) there was a thing about it but it wasn't as bad as your situation. If we wanted the dimmers on or needed a sound system all we had to do was ask permission from a teacher and get them to ring the janitor to clear it (who is not the easiest person) and then turning on the dimmer ect was a breeze, ladders on the other hand, there is the whole health & safety and insurance as has been said earlier but most insurers wont insure you unless your 18.

 

Just a little bit too late for me though, ive been installing the new sound system all this week, just a little too late for me!

 

Best bet, Speak to your head teach for more info.

 

Trav

[Nick S]

most insurers wont insure you unless your 18.

 

At schools, it's not unusual to see insurers exclude students who are 18 from that kind of coverage - mine certainly did. Just worth knowing.

[greateastern]

Thanks for the reply, thing is my head teacher is the sort that doesn't get involved in such things and the person ot speak to is a rather busy and grumpy 'senior master'. I guess I'll have to take the plunge though, doubt it'll get done before we start rigging for les mis in the next week or so, if it does we'll probably not be allowed to do it as they often stop things while they rethink the policy.

 

Andy

[Stuart Basson]

Hi, Andy,

 

If they stop rigging at your place while they sort their problems out, that might be doing you and your colleagues a favour. It is still too comon to find "professional ignorance" of testing needs and regulations. I was alarmed by your description of your tallescope, and read it several times before deciding it wasn't a wind up - I only thought it might be because I couldn't imagine anyone using one on which the "folding gear" was broken. But then, I'm no longer as young and as enthusiastic as once I was!

 

You ask if it is your responsibility to point such problems out. Strictly speaking, "No," I suppose, but to be aware enough to ask such a question indicates the ability to act responsibly, which does you credit. I'd consider it unlikely that you'd be held liable for any accidental injury to anyone else, but - worse than that - you might get a distraught parent come up to you and ask exactly how it was that their son ended up in intensive care. That last thought would be enough for me!

 

It is a desperately difficult situation, since the desire to learn makes you want to try things that might involve taking calculated risks. A more bolshie approach to your head etc will probably not get you far, by the sound of it, and going to governors or the LEA will only cause tension. Keep chipping away at your head; find companies that PAT test, or test & maintain tallies, for instance, and get a broad idea of how much it might cost, thus reducing the amount of graft that the school has to do. If all else fails, keep your wits about you, keep your mates safe and phone the local HSE & licensing bods the day after you leave school!

[greateastern]

Thanks again for the advice. I think I know what I will do. Since our working practices are clearly dangerous I will try and keep mentioning it to people. If I do not see what I feel to be the correct steps taken in the next 3 months or so before I leave I will do as suggested and get hold of the H&S bods the day I leave and hope that they will force them into doing something, I won't do that now as at the moment I consider myself to have enough awareness of the risks that I can keep myself and my mates safe for the time being.

 

Andy