How Qualified Are You??

[Stu]

I'm going for the both a degreed and undegreed person to be at the same level, but one has alot less debt! :)

 

Stu

[Bryson]

DANGER: Potentially controversial opinion contained....

 

While, in the short term, experience and hands-on usage do count for a lot, in the long run, when you you want to move up a little from throwing lights on the truss, that degree is going to stand you in good stead...it implies a proven academic (read: paperwork etc) aptitude that your non-degreed folks may or may not have.

 

My 2ps worth.

 

My Graduate Loan runs out this year...bliss....

[kmarston]

I think that getting a formalized ACADEMIC training is very important, in addition to or in lieu of drama school training. In any part of theatre, the ability to communicate effectively - verbally as well as on paper - is so important. I can't even count the number of times that I have simply disregarded show/rehearsal/production meeting notes due to absolutely appalling spelling and grammar.

 

Being a current drama school student, after earning a university degree in the States, I obviously feel like I need that extra training to jump start my career. I guess it is a personal decision. Some people get lucky and can just jump right into the industry - others of us have to prove ourselves first. It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time sometimes, I guess.

 

Having said that, however, I have found in the States that having a degree is 95% of getting any job. If it comes down to two people who have the same experience, but one has a degree, the university graduate will get the job almost every time. I don't know how that compares to things here in the UK, though.

 

Kelli

[robloxley]

and yes I have got a degree which does not even go on my CV as it has absolutely nothing to do with theatre backstage work! (english)

Well the closest description of my current degree would be Neuroscience - so do I win the prize for the most random degree?

[MattH]

While, in the short term, experience and hands-on usage do count for a lot, in the long run, when you you want to move up a little from throwing lights on the truss, that degree is going to stand you in good stead...it implies a proven academic (read: paperwork etc) aptitude that your non-degreed folks may or may not have.

 

Bryson's point is interesting, if think degree training keeps you in good stead, we can't all be multi-tasking techs all our lives (well, maybe bitter ones). Maybe there should be a poll of ex-graduates, when did you graduate, where did you go and what are you doing now?

 

Matt

[techwsussex]

I think that RB keep some places specialy for clearing

They're not allowed to, its viewed as awarding places on financial basis as opposed to merit, and is banned by the QAA and OfStEd.

:)

Owen

 

PS. My parents are both academics, so I grew with this kind of crap.

[techwsussex]

With the danger of 2 messages in a row accepted:

 

I think that experience vs. training is entirely dependent on the job you're doing.

 

An academic training of some kind is suited to management but not to being the skivvy.

 

On an in or an out, the best workers are those who've been working a few years, and the worst are the ones with a 1st degree in TheTech, who can't lift anything.

 

I did an HND, but only after 2 years in my local theatre doing allsorts. Experience is valuable for the skills you pick up that you learn by doing, that you couldnt learn another way or in a sheltered environment like a college theatre.

 

Owen

[Rachel]

Surely the answer is both? This is the route that I'm taking anyway. As you might know, I'm studying for a degree in Technical Stage at CSSD at the moment. However, this summer I have stage-managed three shows, and have learned huge amounts. I'm still happy to go back to Central next year and learn more skills, and have the opportunity to put them into practice in a 'safe' environment.

 

As far as I'm concerned, this is about confidence in my case. There are some people who are capable of going straight into a job and learning as they go. I'm not one of them. A couple of them started degrees at Central and then realised that all they really wanted to be doing was working, and so they've left. I don't feel confident enough yet. With every show I do I build up confidence, but I want to graduate so that I feel that I'm armed with the necessary skills.

 

This really isn't about the amount of paperwork involved in doing a degree. To me, that all seems secondary to the fact that I'm being taught by skilled people, and learning how to put my skills into practice. The paperwork is required to pass the degree (at any level), but it's the skills that are really important to me.

 

Sorry this is a bit of a rant and a life story! I'm sure people will quote bits of this to argue against.. Have fun! :)

 

 

Rachel

[Stu]

As far as I'm concerned, this is about confidence in my case. There are some people who are capable of going straight into a job and learning as they go. I don't feel confident enough yet. With every show I do I build up confidence, but I want to graduate so that I feel that I'm armed with the necessary skills.

Thats an interesting point you've made there Rachel, and one I'd not though off before if I'm honest.

 

Do you find that because your learning and working in a 'closed' enviroment, that you can make the odd mistake here and there without anyone minding too much?

 

Stu

[Rachel]

There is that, although Central has incredibly high standards when it comes to working on public productions. It's more that the mistakes don't get to make an appearance, because if it looks like I'm about to do something completely wrong, there'll be someone there to guide me away from making mistakes. I think you learn as much from nearly making mistakes as you do actually making mistakes!

 

Plenty of scope for learning from my actual mistakes on my current show though! And a slightly unsympathetic (although funny) cast, who simply say 'Well you won't do THAT again will you?!' :)

[Paul J Need]

Hate to say this but............. I would prefer to employ somone with no degree than with a 1st class honours. It would seem almost anyone can obtain a degree these days, and a good pass at A level. So much so, on the A level matter) some universities are asking potential students to sit an entry exam to seperate all the A graded school leavers....

 

I did the lighting course at RADA, part completed the C&G181 but never sat the exam, oh and 20 years experience. :) jeeeez ALREADY where did the time go!?

 

Education for all........ frankly doesn't work if almost everyone gains a degree.

[Fiona]

Yep - agree that nearly everyone now is gaining more than acceptable grades at A Level and then continuing to do a degree.....BUT....having studied to degree level does open more doors to you. On graduating, my first job was working as a multiskilled technician in a 600 seat theatre - no my degree did not get me that job as they were far more interested in the experience I had at technical theatre than if I could write essays etc - however after having worked there for 2 years I desperately wanted a more challenging job - hence I have side stepped into teaching technical theatre....without a degree this would not have been possible. Yes I have had to take teaching qualifications to be a fully paid up 'teacher' but this door would have been shut to me if I hadn't got the degree behind me.

Not wanting to repeat Bryson's point - but I do think that if you have more qualifications behind you there are more doors open to allow you to move up the career ladder in various capacities. If you are looking at moving into more managerial position I do think you need some form of academic qualification.

 

I'm sure now there will be a string of people that will let us know that they are in management and doing very well without the degree!!

[Brian]

In the last 15 years I have probably interviewed over 400 people and over 100 of them have been taken on (for jobs in the broadcasting industry). These jobs have been at a variety of levels ranging from Runners to senior engineering positions. I think I can safely say that I have never used a degree as a reason to take them on.

 

My key criteria have always been...

1. CV/Covering letter - good grammar (not necessarily perfect) and a relevant application.

 

2. Attitude - if a degree helps someone have the right attitude then that's a benefit.

 

3. Experience - not necessarily direct (except for technical jobs) but relevant.

 

After the interview I always offered someone a tour of the facilities. Anyone declining would not get the job and the decision to take someone on was usually made during that tour when the setting was less formal and you could ask them questions (now I've given my secret away).

 

As for formal qualifications getting you into management I doubt anything can prepare you for it. Nothing can prepare you for making people redundant or having someone arrested for theft (though I wish it could).

[Stu]

Plenty of scope for learning from my actual mistakes on my current show though! And a slightly unsympathetic (although funny) cast, who simply say 'Well you won't do THAT again will you?!'  :)

At least when they make their mistakes they are usually a hell of alot more public!

 

Stu

[gothyangel]

WOW - Quite a lot of comments and remarks there for and against!

 

Personally I am one of those "bit of everything" technician type people... I have been a casual at my local council theatre for almost 7 years... (I am a casual because every member of the tech staff is.. even our technical manager is only casual!)

 

Before I ended up backstage I was hoping to go to drama school to act, which now if you met me you would think as very scary...

 

The reason I am saying all this is because - although I have no qualifications at the moment and have been happy with that, I know someone who hasn't and now he wants to get on to bigger and better things, he is finding that he is struggling... the result.. I am going to do something next september!