How Qualified Are You??

[Lena]

Hi,

I have to respond to the comment by Stu "but somethings, like Lighting Design, can't be taught to someone. You either have the feel and flair for it, or you don't."

(Sorry I don't know how to get the quote in the box!)

 

As someone with a degree in lighting and sound design I feel I should take offence. There are skills that a designer should learn, understanding angles, how colours mix etc.

But, ok, I do think it is like teaching someone to play an instrument, most people can learn, but only a few are truly talented.

 

I think that people have a flair for something or they don't and that applies to every skill we learn. You can teach people to stage manage, or be technicians or electricians, or any other job in the world. If you are good at it you will be, no matter if your background is academic, learned on the job or just instinctive. We are all good at something and not at others.

This is generally my excuse for being unable to grasp any concepts I don't understand; my brain just wasn't meant to work in that direction!

 

Lena,

ps I am sorry for the fact that my brain doesn't work in a conscise or logical direction.

[Stu]

Hi Lena,

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to cause offence to anyone, such as yourself, who's got a degree, and has worked bloody hard for that, and everything that goes with it.

 

I've got alot of respect for people who go on into higher education, I knew it wasn't right for me, and my total lack of effort to my A-Levels showed me Uni would be a waste of time. But if you feel you can do it, I say go for it :P

 

I still stand by my comments that you can't be taught how to design a lighting rig if you've not got the eye for it, or a sound rig if you've not got an ear for sound.

 

However if your refining your already existant skills then thats totally different. I however have come across a couple of people with degrees in Lighting Design / Relighters who I thought were totally wrong for the job. However I suppose this could have been bad luck on my part!

 

Sorry if I caused offence and all, not my intention at all!

 

Stu

PS. To quote from someones thread, press the Quote button on the post you want to Quote, and then snip out whatever isn't relevant in the box that comes up below the reply box.

 

HTH! :** laughs out loud **:

[smeggie]

I've no official qualifications but have been trained by the head techs at the local venues to tech and all that.

the rest was experience with the college veunes and local work. [luckily, the local venues are well fitted out and I had a lot of experience that was of use in each show]

 

good luck to those who want to do the degree routes, but I believe that the on the job training is more useful than any piece of paper [ practical based ones excepted as they use a part time method of work/study mixed together] .

 

cheers

andrew

[Big Dave]

IMHO, experience is the best training anyone can ever have.....however knowing why something happens only augments knowing that it will!

[MattH]

Can I just looking at clearing, I was shocked that Rose Bruford had so many courses in clearing. I would have thought they'd be over-subscribed.

 

N.

Hi Nick,

 

I think this shows how mad the university application process is: I'm assuming that not all candidates met thier grades offers, and thus lost their places. Of course, the college want to have full classes, even on the least popular courses, and hence they appear in clearing. I think its interesting that some institutions like Bruford have recently introduced courses in European Theatre etc that they can sell to foreign students and offer to those who don't make it onto te acting degree - hence not losing students to other colleges.

 

Class sizes at Bruford are good (so I hear), and it should be noted that other insitutions have a policy of increasing the numbers of entrants each year. This is a shame because I think the best part of doing my degree was the one on one tutor support.

 

 

Cheers

 

Matt

[MattH]

Just Thought...

 

Also there are probably more course places than decent candidates available, I think this is especially so with more non-specific, general technical theatre stage management courses - alot of universities are now in competition with the drama schools.

 

And How am I qualified...

 

I spent alot of my teens as a casual at my local theatre, and then did a Lighting Design Degree (that's what it says on paper, i.e. not a technical theatre degree with lighting component), along side C&G 236. I do think that in order to work at the top of the profession, a specific training is required (or a hell of a lot of experience). Systems now used are highly complicated, and although I could muster a bit of sound/video for a fringe show, I couldn't do this for anything larger.

 

Also large venues with a multi-tasking crew are often the bane of my life, I think if management choses this approach then appropriate training should be supplied (perhaps in all venues - like solicitors have to train throughout their careers). Last week while at a large london venue I asked the LD (West End Calibre) how the focus went - he replied 'I did it, the crew didn't know how to focus.'

 

This worries me...

 

Matt

[Lena]

Stu,

 

No offence was taken at all. I was just trying to give another angle.

For the record, I worked in theatre before and during my degree and I am not sure which has been more valuable to me. Both I think have had equal weight in securing the jobs I have had subsequently.

Different people learn in different ways don't they.

 

Selena :** laughs out loud **:

 

ps. thanks for the info on quotes

[richard]

I have to say that I don't like the idea of degrees or courses in things like 'Lighting Design'. Most of the good lighting designers that I know started at the bottom and worked up, they have all done some stage Management, some prod. LX work, then some LDing on the fringe, until they could finally say that they were an LD.

 

The best courses are, I feel, those that teach you a bit of everything, it is very useful if you are an LD, to know how a DSM calls a show, as you are then able to communicate where you want your cues to be called more easily. It is also useful if you can build a set, as you can then give more helpful suggestions as to where your practicals can be attached to give the best effect, and you are able to read the plans more easily.

 

It is especially important, as an LD, to know how to actually rig a light, how long it takes to put the things up, things that you can only doing. An inexperienced LD could look at the specs for a Patt 264 and a Source four, and think that the 264 is better (more powerful, two sets of shutters etc) it is only from using the things that they understand the problems..

 

That's my thoughts anyways..

 

Richard

[Stu]

Also large venues with a multi-tasking crew are often the bane of my life, I think if management choses this approach then appropriate training should be supplied

I work at a venue where multi skilled is the name of the game (no Chief LX or Resident SM say), and a result I am unlikely to ever get a job there, because I'm not multi skilled enough.

 

Sure I know the basics out of LX, but I'll never know enough to be able to fufill what they are looking for.

 

I personally think techs should be employed for their skill which they are really good at, and can bring alot to a theatre, and not someone who knows a bit of everything, but perhaps not enough in one thing....

 

If that makes sense?

 

Stu

[MattH]

Hi Richard,

 

I'm definitely not saying someone should graduate to become a Lighting Designer as soon as they leave college, it's definitely a process of lighting small gigs, getting to know the kit - however, what is priceless in doing a degree is the experimentation time it gives you - you're allowed to make mistakes and not get sacked by the director! This experimentation and the experience lecturers give you saves many years in experimenting on the job: the first 6 weeks at Bruford was an amazing time where all my lighting bad habits disappeared - there are many old school LD's who display such habits ;) (probably from built up from hundreds of shows but also possibly because until now there hasn't been a structured education).

 

I picked up my stage craft from about 5 years as a casual, and true it's amazing that some graduates really lack this - I don't think any Bruford Graduate could fly safely in a counterweight house unless they had other experience (not talking about the lighting degree - they'd do it with motors :** laughs out loud **: ).

 

Most of my work is as a Production electrician, or Programmer although I light about 8 shows a year along with events and architectural stuff. I do consider myself an LD, not just because of a degree but rather my philosophy and approach to lighting. One recent lighting commission credited me as lighting artist - although I would never call myself that, the title LD for me is assuming a role & title that people have given me. Indeed, I get relights work from one LD because he knows I have the creative and sensitive training to reproduce his work.

 

Experience does count, especially when the sh*t hits the fan, lighting in naff venues with crap kit is a real good way of practising your art (beware over specified drama schools). Although your comment about the 264 and the S4 reminds me visiting venues and thinking that s4 could just as well be a 264!!! But is foul maintenance of kit bad training or bad management?

 

Generally I think that people without a qualification often feel banded with those working in the industry whose a ability is poor. This generalization is as we all know untrue; I have worked with, learnt from and respect many people who have no qualification. The un/qualified good will always be good, the not so good are the ones we need to worry about.

 

Matt

 

 

P.S. Maybe I just should have said: 'You're only as good as your last show'

[Rob]

I have to say that I don't like the idea of degrees or courses in things like 'Lighting Design'. Most of the good lighting designers that I know started at the bottom and worked up, they have all done some stage Management, some prod. LX work, then some LDing on the fringe, until they could finally say that they were an LD.

 

I think we've been here before, but I'll repeat it anyway - Just because the course at Bruford is titled 'Lighting Design' it doesn't chuck out people who expect to go straight into cushy jobs as designers. It's all based on the same stuff as all the other technical courses and covers everything from the deeply technical to the deeply artistic. It's just bundled under a slightly mis-leading name :** laughs out loud **:

 

I don't think they do even try and "teach" lighting design directly. They just create the opportunities to learn by experience - It's three years to experiment and make mistakes...

[colinmonk]

Leading from what Rob said, Lighting Designers at Rose Bruford;

 

CAN ACTUALLY RIG A SHOW,

If they couldnt, who does it? There isnt a course at Rose in Lighting Rigging, or a course titled Lighting Technician!

[Ellis]

Hi Folks,

 

I recently completed th ABTT Bronze Award. While not cheap for an individual to fund themselves, it does give you the basics of working safely as a casual in a theatre (Flying, PAT Testing, Manual Handling, Electrical installation ad Knots & Splicing)

 

They may well be repeating the technical theatre training week next summer.

 

The courses are open to all classes of ABTT membership.

 

regards

 

Ellis

 

(Associate member of ABTT - toined at this years exhibition)

[solus]

No degree in technical theatre but quals. in H & S, C & G 236, first aid, rigging training, moving light training, PAT testing etc. A degree teaches you to write essays and here in manchester everyone (and I mean everyone) I have dealt with who has had LX/sound training is nigh on useless, even when practical work has been done.

 

The best people I know in this business from LX designers, riggers, flymen, stage crew to LX casuals have been doing it for years and are certainly the most useful on a hectic fit up. Experience counts and when people send CV's to me with degrees in LX design I am tempted to raise an eyebrow. If you're good enough you are never out of work, degree or not. and yes I have got a degree which does not even go on my CV as it has absolutely nothing to do with theatre backstage work! (english)

 

I do believe the ONLY way to get on in this industry is training relevant to the job and experience as much varied work as possible, an proficient LX casual is good but an LX casual who knows how to fly and run a flat is even more useful, no piece of paper teaches that. :)

[mac500]

It would be interesting to hear in about 10 years time how well people who do have a degree are doing opposed to the people who haven't got one!