Simulated fire effect

[alistermorton]

We're putting on Macbeth in a month or so, and for one of the scenes they'd like a grate/hearth to appear to have a fire burning in it. Props people have located some simulated fire units, which use red and orange uplighter LEDs under a cloud of water vapour created by ultrasonic vapourisers. It looks quite realistic. The problem is, the units we've found so far only have the flame effect for about a 6"-8" long slot (with a fairly large plastic surround), and they're looking at a grate which is about 12"x18" at least. 

Does anyone have any suggestions where we could source similar but larger vapouriser lights from - it's the ideal safe effect, if we can find one. We'd rather not shell out several hundred pounds (they've seen some for about 800 but they're really for putting in built in wall heater fires) for an effect that will only be used for a minute or two, so lowish cost is good.

Edit: this is the sort of thing they've found so far.

Thanks.

Edited January 3 by alistermorton

[J Pearce]

I might be missing something obvious - but could you not just use multiple of the smaller units?

[alistermorton]

It's a good point. We could, but the flame effect is relatively small, about 6"-8" by about 1" at most, and the plastic surround means the flames would quite obviously be separated so would look like an array of small linear flames, rather than a fire. It's something being considered, but we'd probably need a dozen or more to cover the size of the hearth, plus we'd need make sure we could control them all at the same time, which might mean butchering them and modifying the control circuits. So we're looking for maybe a couple of much bigger units, or suggestions how we could do the same effect ourselves. A possibility, I guess, would be a transparent tray of water with floating vapourisers lit from below.

I did suggest a couple of salamanders under the hearth, but this wasn't deemed to be a flyer 😉

[themadhippy]

what about the ole trusty silk effect?

[DrV]

21 minutes ago, themadhippy said:

what about the ole trusty silk effect?

Could you combine that with a miniature smoke machine on v. low output?

[J Pearce]

Many years ago, I worked on a show with a fireplace that had a character appear through it.

That used a serpentine of pvc pipe with holes drilled in the top, fed fast dissipating smoke from a smoke machine.

In the gaps between the pipe was a load of PAR16 lamps - though these days you’d probably use pixel tape.

[alistermorton]

Not sure silk is the effect they're after. A small smoker combined with lighting could work but the fire will be on for a few minutes (and it's "in" the audience as the performance is in transverse).

[ImagineerTom]

Ultrasonic mist maker / pond fogger under water in a “sealed” box the size of the “fire” you want with holes drilled in a line in the lid. 
 

a small (really small, we’re talking 5v 30/10 fan kinda size) blowing air into the box which picks up some of the mister generated fog and blow it out through the holes in the lid. This will produce the smoke you need which you can then up light / backlight with orange, red & yellow LED’s and is how we do it in theme park scenarios. Depending on the size of your fire you might need multiple misters but domestic grade ones can be bought for a few quid on eBay. 

[alistermorton]

Ah, now that  could work. Thanks for taking the time to describe it. 

[sunray]

5 hours ago, ImagineerTom said:

Ultrasonic mist maker / pond fogger under water in a “sealed” box the size of the “fire” you want with holes drilled in a line in the lid. 
 

a small (really small, we’re talking 5v 30/10 fan kinda size) blowing air into the box which picks up some of the mister generated fog and blow it out through the holes in the lid. This will produce the smoke you need which you can then up light / backlight with orange, red & yellow LED’s and is how we do it in theme park scenarios. Depending on the size of your fire you might need multiple misters but domestic grade ones can be bought for a few quid on eBay. 

I've seen something similar done with vapes.

[sleah]

21 hours ago, alistermorton said:

Edit: this is the sort of thing they've found so far.

Have they actually tried on of those 'in the flesh', as it were?

I bought something similar from Amazon a few months back (to use as intended!) just out of interest. Rather underwhelming even when sat on my kitchen fireplace.

I can't help thinking on a stage it would be rather lost, even say four of them. Might be worth getting one to play with, it can always end up in the office with scent in it 🙂

[alistermorton]

Yes, they got one. On stage we'd need dozens of them. They look good on a small scale. 

[ImagineerTom]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:46 AM, sunray said:

I've seen something similar done with vapes.

Vape based smoke tech is great for short bursts or relatively dense smoke in a small volume. It’s not viable (or safe because of the currents involved) for longer bursts or large volume. 
 

we’ve put loads of mist maker based systems into attractions and events that need the sort of effect the OP describes because it is the safest, easiest, most dependable solution. 

[themadhippy]

 

Quote

(or safe because of the currents involved

wouldnt say 3amps  is that dangerous

[sunray]

39 minutes ago, ImagineerTom said:

Vape based smoke tech is great for short bursts or relatively dense smoke in a small volume. It’s not viable (or safe because of the currents involved) for longer bursts or large volume. 
 

we’ve put loads of mist maker based systems into attractions and events that need the sort of effect the OP describes because it is the safest, easiest, most dependable solution. 

That makes a lot of sense.

 

I've only seen short scenes using vapes, Aladdin's Lamp (Brilliant effect!)  and a fireball in a fireplace on a cart & battery powered, so lasted just a few seconds before the reds and yellows.