Replacement floodlights

[David Ripley]

The main thing that will dictate moving over to LED will be the lack of replacement 'conventional' bubbles

Tungsram went under last year and were really the only remaining manufacturer making T class lamps, even if Osram say they are continuing. 

Large companies have already bought up any remaining lamps they can, to give them time and we at Central are looking at a multi year refurbishment of our spaces to switch over to LED Production lighting entirely.

It's also worth considering the control side, as Robin D said, 'never power them from dimmers', but that means you need some other form of hard power distribution, and more importantly an infrastructure to get data to each lantern. It also means that a lot of the simple desks in Village halls, schools and so on will need to be replaced as LED Fixtures are more than one channel per unit

Nick Moran is steering a joint Royal Central/ALPD project, Surviving The Death of Tungsten, to raise awareness amongst smaller venues that the end is nigh for TH, not to be too dramatic. It is also about training in the use of them, both practically and artistically through building local networks that can support each other.

If you want to get involved in this initiative contact Nick at nick.moran@cssd.ac.uk and put SDOT in the subject

David

ABTT Presentation 2023 V2.pptx THE DEATH OF TUNGSTEN leaflet for approval to print.pdf

[timsabre]

This post was about 500W halogen floods, R7s lamps for these are not so specialised as T class theatrical lamps and are still widely available. Presumably there will come a day when they aren't, but personally I think that day is a way off. As others have said, there are about a million different types of LED flood out there but none of them are a good dimmable LED replacement for 500W halogen floods.

You don't say how much headroom you have, though I would assume being a village hall it isn't much. Something like this (takes permanent undimmed power and DMX) might be a valid replacement.
https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/led-bar/eurolite-led-cbb-2-cob-ww-bar

[David Ripley]

Fair point Tim but part of my post is awareness raising as we are concerned about the smaller semi or non professional venues that may not have the awareness most of us do about the future of their lighting kit

Even R7s are under notice!

David

[slx02]

9 hours ago, David Ripley said:

Fair point Tim but part of my post is awareness raising as we are concerned about the smaller semi or non professional venues that may not have the awareness most of us do about the future of their lighting kit

Even R7s are under notice!

David

It's great about the awareness David, but I would say, it's the cost of replacing halogen units for LED - also replacement of dimmers and control etc. especially if the village hall type of venues only put productions on a few times a year. Is there any guidance for these venues on raising the capital or where to obtain the funding they need? 

I have found that some halls have other financial priorities and end up de-commissioning the kit they have and scrapping it, then end up with a couple of stands with crappy LED units expecting to light a full show.  

I remember being interviewed some years ago from the 'Save Stage Lighting' campaign with the EU and I wasn't filled with confidence that our community halls were going to have a say or even be thought of. 

It's a real shame as these village halls can inspire a young person to develop their creative skills in the art of lighting and work towards joining our industry. 

On a side note, there are quite a few varieties of R7s 78mm & 118mm LED replacement bubbles now and China seem to be manufacturing quite a few T/H and short arc bubbles too, at reasonable costs. I do hope our village and community halls are encouraged to keep their affordable legacy kit a bit longer before it heads to landfill. 

Ian 😊

 

 

[adam2]

These linear halogen lamps are indeed very popular, and are still widely available. Eventually, manufacture or import will presumably be banned but not just yet. at present, these lamps are cheap enough that even a village hall should be able to afford a few dozen spares.lLess than £1 each if you look around.

On a more general note, might I appeal to venues and to individualls NOT to dispose of unwanted, surplus, or obsolete incandescent lamps of any type . If you or your venue no longer want them  someone else may need them.

[timsabre]

5 hours ago, slx02 said:

On a side note, there are quite a few varieties of R7s 78mm & 118mm LED replacement bubbles now and China seem to be manufacturing quite a few T/H and short arc bubbles too, at reasonable costs. I do hope our village and community halls are encouraged to keep their affordable legacy kit a bit longer before it heads to landfill. 

 

 

All the linear halogen LED replacement lamps are rubbish though. The light output is a fraction of what you get from the halogen tube, and they won't dim sensibly either.

[David Ripley]

As with all things LED, I would say that the R7 LED lamps are currently not very good. I remember seeing a demo at the National 7 or 8 years ago where ETC were showing the LED engines that finally had a reasonable dimmer curve and colour.

The EU EcoDesign regs have been the driver behind the switch over to LED from a regulatory point of view and why the manufacturers have left the field. The bubbles we need are difficult to manufacture, so a hassle for them, particularly with a dwindling market

The SDOT campaign is trying to address the very fact that village halls etc generally are unaware of these things that will affect them, so we are trying to raise that awareness. Also if networks are created, those that can change can cascade their old stuff to those that are still waiting. 

In Norway there is a Government scheme to help with this, so I think we do need a campaign of some sort to get to our lot to make them aware of how this will affect communities across the country. It also speaks very well to Net Zero

[slx02]

5 hours ago, timsabre said:

 

All the linear halogen LED replacement lamps are rubbish though. The light output is a fraction of what you get from the halogen tube, and they won't dim sensibly either.

I quite agree with you on that one Tim 👍 

[timsabre]

3 hours ago, David Ripley said:

As with all things LED, I would say that the R7 LED lamps are currently not very good. I remember seeing a demo at the National 7 or 8 years ago where ETC were showing the LED engines that finally had a reasonable dimmer curve and colour.

I design LED stuff for a living and R7 LED lamps are never going to be very good, it's just not possible in the shape of the lamp - you can't get enough heatsinking into it to use the high powered LED's that you'd need to get a decent brightness.

 

The ETC light engines are in a different league as there's much more opportunity for LED placement and heat management in the S4 fixtures it is designed to be used with.

[David Ripley]

 

3 minutes ago, timsabre said:

R7 LED lamps are never going to be very good, it's just not possible in the shape of the lamp

Hi Tim

I suppose that is why those domestic floods you can get have loads of LEDs on their face. I'm guessing that is what will replace any linear lamps over time, for Net Zero reasons and that will drive manufacturers out of the market.

I would assume that R7s for theatrical use are probably a tiny fraction of the overall market, so unlikely to be manufactured in small amounts as time goes on.

David

[Yorkie]

Has anyone used these 'dimmable' LED floods? https://www.lyco.co.uk/pro-50w-dimmable-warm-white-led-floodlight-black.html

(I'm looking for a slightly different application- medium term fix for a church currently lit (internally!) by 2000k 70W SON lamps)

Edited October 19, 2023 by Yorkie

[timsabre]

1 hour ago, David Ripley said:

I would assume that R7s for theatrical use are probably a tiny fraction of the overall market, so unlikely to be manufactured in small amounts as time goes on.

 

There are so many floodlight fixtures installed out there that use the linear halogen lamps though, I think there will be significant demand for a long time yet.

@Yorkie, those dimmable floods look interesting, report back if you try them. You will probably find that dimming is a bit rubbish with Triac dimmers, but acceptable with Trailing Edge/Mosfet dimmers, at least that is what I am finding with most "dimmable" fixtures.

[sunray]

1 hour ago, timsabre said:

There are so many floodlight fixtures installed out there that use the linear halogen lamps though, I think there will be significant demand for a long time yet.

@Yorkie, those dimmable floods look interesting, report back if you try them. You will probably find that dimming is a bit rubbish with Triac dimmers, but acceptable with Trailing Edge/Mosfet dimmers, at least that is what I am finding with most "dimmable" fixtures.

We junked repurposed some dimmable fitting last year as we couldn't find any dimmers they worked on, not even those supplied by the manufacturer for the purpose.

[Yorkie]

2 hours ago, timsabre said:

@Yorkie, those dimmable floods look interesting, report back if you try them. You will probably find that dimming is a bit rubbish with Triac dimmers, but acceptable with Trailing Edge/Mosfet dimmers, at least that is what I am finding with most "dimmable" fixtures.

I'll probably try a couple on a spare 20 year old Anytronics wallpack

[sunray]

20 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I'll probably try a couple on a spare 20 year old Anytronics wallpack

Nowt wrong with Anytronics contractor dimmers. Love 'em to bits, especially for schools.

Edited October 19, 2023 by sunray