Budget Wireless Mic system for am dram group

[Martin Lepley]

We are looking for a "budget" wireless mic system i.e. not sennheiser for our local am dram group. This will be used for amplification of singing on stage.

We are based in the UK and plan to purchase both CH70 (Licence free - 863 – 864.999 MHz band) and CH38 (open licence 606.500 – 613.500 MHz band)

I have found a product by W Audio DTM800 and wondered whether anyone has any opinion of this.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-DTM800-Beltpack-Diversity-System/dp/B0753H4NJ2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=20ZWVZYMR7BPU&keywords=W+Audio+DTM800&qid=1692625213&sprefix=w+audio+dtm800+%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.42a483c5-1df2-46ee-a728-92d018483bf9

 

Was thinking of an 8 channel or 12 channel system (based upon 4 channels in CH70, and rest in CH38)

 

Thanks

 

 

[J Pearce]

I wouldn't attempt 12 channels with a budget system. It won't be reliable. Unless you're doing lots of shows a year, I'd suggest owning maybe 4 channels and hiring a good system when you need more.

Additionally consider that budget systems are almost impossible to get spares for. By contrast I can still get spares for 10 year old Sennheiser packs, and they're mostly pretty easy to fit.

[kgallen]

2 hours ago, Martin Lepley said:

We are looking for a "budget" wireless mic system i.e. not sennheiser for our local am dram group. This will be used for amplification of singing on stage.

This is essentially the same as the groups I’m with. 
 

But just don’t, amdram or not. Amazon is also not the place.

(a) Do you really need reinforcement? As in do you really? Or is it just the toy they want.

(b) Do what @J Pearce says.

(c) Do (b) but look at some decent 2nd hand kit like Sennheiser EW G2.

(d) Do (c) and build up quality kit over time. You’ll need cabling and flight cases too and beyond about 8 channels also proper antenna distribution.

It seems folk these days often want to go from nothing to West End in one hop. 12 channels of mics will be hard work for the sound person and you’ll need a mixer with the capacity and capability to manage that lot.

Don’t waste your money on cheap cr*p RF kit.

Stay away from the 2.4GHz WiFi stuff.

For new stuff the ball-park recommendation tends to be £500-£600 per channel entry level. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by kgallen

[sandall]

Having similar am-dram experience over several decades I would just add to the above -

Unless you have/are an experienced sound mixer to set up the system & waggle the faders it will probably sound awful. If most of the cast have an open mic it will definitely sound awful.

Assuming you have the necessary skills, then hire what you need for the show - always cheaper unless you need radiomics for several shows a year.

If you/they are determined to use radiomics then start with 4 for the first show (principals only; shotgun mics for the rest). If that works well then consider 8 for the next show.

[kerry davies]

The problem with AmDram is that no matter what technical wizardry you throw at a voice you are mostly amplifying rubbish and ending up with louder rubbish that drives the originator even deeper down the mumble mine. A friend used to say that if you need loads of radio mics then you certainly don't want them. 

Everyone above has it correct and I think J Pearce used to work in a school so pay heed. I can blag my way around mixing bands but, as Sandall suggests, a dozen radio mics in an amateur cast is way beyond reasonable. 

[sunray]

I don't fit in this forum in the same way as most, in as much that my typical event is a village fete, school sports day etc and more recently AmDram. In my 60 years of the industry I have seen a typical system developing from being transported in a babies pushchair (mine). I recall the excitement unwrapping our second microphone (Both recently sold on Ebay) However over the years I've built up a fair selection of radiomic kit, maybe 30 sets and the vast majority is cheap end Trantec Ch 70, Ch38 & VHF.

Would I recommend this calibre of kit for 12 channel of AmDram

Not on your life, Have I done 12 channels for AmDram? oh yes but I borrow the proper stuff and I prefer it if the owner comes with it to jiggle the knobs.

As others have already said it is not for the faint hearted and certainly not for someone without experience and decent experience at that.

One of my big mistakes was purchasing a 6 channel package of CH70 KAM kit on recommendation (also sold on Ebay at great loss). Despite the apparent good spec it really didn't make the grade.

[sleah]

Trantec!

I' likely to be buying THIS system shortly to replace a mix'n'match system for an independant school. Mostly used by juniors (7-10 years) and some use by seniors (11-18 Years) and occasional use by a local youth am-dram.

£3500 for 10 ways in Ch38 😊

Trantec is ideal for am-dram, it's not bargin-basement China-Export junk from Amazon, it's well built kit from a reputable company who also do far more expensive systems.

Trantec also make the radio components for the likes of Sennheiser / Beyer /TOA for some of their offerings - they are actually owned by TOA now.

Spare parts are readily available, even for discontinued kit.

The system I'm looking at (S4.10) is aimed squarely right at the education and am-dram markets.

[sleah]

1 hour ago, sunray said:

As others have already said it is not for the faint hearted and certainly not for someone without experience and decent experience at that.

I cannot agree more. I've run shows using 16/20 even 22 ways of radios, all school/am-dram and it's not an easy job! You need a good understanding of how radio works as it can be a dark art....

I will only operate with a marked script. I won't alow the director to suggest swapping packs around between characters unless it would be a real show-stopper - I tell them that sharing packs in itself is VERY LIKELY going to be a show-stopper as something WILL go wrong. If you do have to swap, do it yourself or delegate to a helper who you would trust with your life..

Each character is given a number, which is also the radio mic number and the desk channel number (I use a lot of masking tape..). I go through the script and put the characters number by each line they speak. I also tell the cast to assume the mic is on all the time in case I didn't drop their mic down in time or bring it up early.

Follow the script, no distractions. I won't use comms (don't have any anyway) as I would lose my place which can be very bad!

I disable local mute buttons and power buttons where possible. Let performers have have access and I guarentee someone WILL turn off/mute and not turn it back on.

Regardless of how laidback you normally are, you have to be absolutely anal when it comes to using lots of radios, be it marking the script and being a complete arse if the director makes changes and doesn't tell you (stand up to them, it's their show they could mess up) to getting the mics ready, handing them out and returning to storage.

Start getting complacent at any stage and it's going to go horribly wrong and you'll just want the ground to open up.

[J Pearce]

3 hours ago, kerry davies said:

I think J Pearce used to work in a school

Over the years I've done everything from schools to west end shows.

[Martin Lepley]

10 hours ago, sleah said:

Trantec!

I' likely to be buying THIS system shortly to replace a mix'n'match system for an independant school. Mostly used by juniors (7-10 years) and some use by seniors (11-18 Years) and occasional use by a local youth am-dram.

£3500 for 10 ways in Ch38 😊

Trantec is ideal for am-dram, it's not bargin-basement China-Export junk from Amazon, it's well built kit from a reputable company who also do far more expensive systems.

Trantec also make the radio components for the likes of Sennheiser / Beyer /TOA for some of their offerings - they are actually owned by TOA now.

Spare parts are readily available, even for discontinued kit.

The system I'm looking at (S4.10) is aimed squarely right at the education and am-dram markets.

Like the idea of trantec. In my solution, I would like a selection of CH70 and CH38 though, so for simple productions we will use the 4 free channels, and in productions where we have more characters singing (not at the same time) they can have extended in to CH38.

 

[GR1]

Don't go any lower spec than the Trantecs. With that number of channels you will be asking for trouble. As sleah and sunray have said the operator is an important part of your sound system so if you don't have anyone competent to use a system with multiple radio mics think very hard before burdening someone less experienced with too much equipment. You will also need a decent mixer, speakers and graphic eq.

[skinda0]

40 minutes ago, Martin Lepley said:

Like the idea of trantec. In my solution, I would like a selection of CH70 and CH38 though, so for simple productions we will use the 4 free channels, and in productions where we have more characters singing (not at the same time) they can have extended in to CH38.

 

Just a thought, if you were using the CH38 kit for larger shows, you would have the licence for the whole year or 2 no?

Would it then just be worth running all 38 kit, then if you need to expand at late notice you always have licenced channels to cover it? as @sleah said, I would feel more comfortable having more channels than required, just to ease the possibility of mixed mics.

[sleah]

Just now, skinda0 said:

Would it then just be worth running all 38 kit, 

This is also worth considering if there is ever a chance someone will bring in their own mic, such as a singer, which is more likely Ch70 if it's their personal kit.

[Martin Lepley]

This is our mixer so we should be alright for channels.

[DavePallant]

At one point I purchased a similar 2 channel 863-865MHz unit made by Citronic to make up numbers of channels and was very disappointed with pops and crackles and dropouts over the same distance as the rest of my system. I ended up using it a couple of times and then sold it. At the time I had 12 channels of Sennheiser XSW-2 channel 38 which have been largely faultless in various theatres at front of house or side of the stage. They now cost about £330 for a beltpack system which is mainly designed for musicians but is still fine for amdram. I still use them alongside my main Sennheiser G4 systems (because amdram groups can never have enough channels) and there is absolutely nothing to hear as a difference between the two systems. There is a cheaper XSW-1 range which I have never tried but they have internal antennas rather than the standard setup of a pair of posable diversity antennas.