Smoke/Fog machine for photography

[AussieTog]

Hello everyone,

I don't work in stagecraft what so ever but I am a photographer.  I am looking at buying a smoke/fog machine but everyone I speak to within the photography industry doesn't know much when it comes to fog machines.  While I am familiar with photography/photography lighting brands, I do not have this brand recognition for SFX and stage craft equipment.  I am writing here to hopefully get some guidance from you fine people about which machine I should purchase. 

What I am wanting it to create large plumes of smoke behind my subject that do not dissipate too quickly so that I can back light it with flash. I was thinking of going big to begin with rather than going small and then having to rebuy a large machine shortly after.  This will be used inside a studio which can range in size.  A larger studio can have very high ceilings and is similar to an open warehouse. 

I couldn't find the output of the Rosco but I read that CFM is a poor measurement of output as it doesn't take into consideration the density of the fog.  From the looks of things the Antari is the most expensive but also outputs the most and consumes the most fluid.  

Feel free to point out anything that I am overlooking because I am sure I am missing a lot.

My short list consists of:
Chauvet DJ Hurricane 1800-Flex - approx $350 USD.  fluid consumption 30ml per minute. 25,000CFM output

Antari M-11 1600W - approx $1,400 USD. fluid consumption 400ml per minute. 70,000CFM output

ADJ VF1300 - approx $139.99 USD. fluid consumption unknown. 12,000CFM output

ADJ Fog Fury 3000 - approx $440 USD. fluid consumption 162ml per minute. 21,000CFM output

ADJ Fog Fury Jett Pro - approx $620 USD. fluid consumption 150ml per minute. 40,000CFM output

Rosco Vapour Plus - approx $1,100USD.  fluid consumption 120ml per minute. Output unknown

Thanks in advance

[timsabre]

Hi and welcome to Blue Room. Assuming you are near a city in Australia, there will be lighting hire companies who would hire you a machine by the day to experiment with. That is the only way to find out what would suit your needs. I would avoid the cheapest machines as they periodically turn off to heat up so you press the smoke button and nothing happens. The more expensive ones will make smoke while they are heating.

You say a "plume of smoke" which suggests vertical smoke to me, the machines you list will all squirt out smoke horizontally and you can't tip them above about 45 degrees. If you need vertical smoke look at the Chauvet Geyser which specifically does that - they are pretty powerful and would be fine for your intended use. They have built in LED lights to colour the smoke too if you need that.

[IRW]

9 hours ago, timsabre said:If you need vertical smoke look at the Chauvet Geyser which specifically does that - they are pretty powerful and would be fine for your intended use. They have built in LED lights to colour the smoke too if you need that.

Worth bearing in mind that the smoke from a geyser dissipates pretty much instantly- I don’t know if they do a fluid that hangs around as the OP wants. It’ll also only fire for about 30 seconds before it needs to stop to reheat for the next burst. (Speaking from actual show-based experience!)

[Andrew C]

On the practicality front, rather than machine specific -

Press button - plume of smoke behind subject

- snap snap snap snap -

Move subject a bit

plume of smoke has dissipated a bit, but is now also  in front of subject

wait 10-20 mins for air  to clear - and repeat

[alistermorton]

Another thing to consider - should the smoke lie low or be allowed to rise? To stay low will need a different kind of fogger, usually with a chiller e.g. a glaciator or something similar, possibly using CO2. These are best hired as needed, as they're even more expensive than the options already under consideration. I've seen some good low foggers from Look Solutions, too. 

Other names to throw in the mix for research might be Swefog and Smoke Factory, but of course I have no idea if these are easily available in Aus.

Edited February 7, 2022 by alistermorton

[DrV]

When lots of smoke is used in club venues with moving lights, the residue left on the innards is quite unpleasant. If you are doing a lot of this with really expensive camera gear you should at least consider the potential effect on your gear. It might not be an issue but it is worth noting.

[AussieTog]

19 hours ago, timsabre said:

You say a "plume of smoke" which suggests vertical smoke to me, the machines you list will all squirt out smoke horizontally and you can't tip them above about 45 degrees. If you need vertical smoke look at the Chauvet Geyser which specifically does that - they are pretty powerful and would be fine for your intended use. They have built in LED lights to colour the smoke too if you need that.

Probably more interested in horizontal than vertical. Sorry for the confusion.  

8 hours ago, Andrew C said:

On the practicality front, rather than machine specific -

Press button - plume of smoke behind subject

- snap snap snap snap -

Move subject a bit

plume of smoke has dissipated a bit, but is now also  in front of subject

wait 10-20 mins for air  to clear - and repeat

I've talked to someone who expressed a similar issue. They put out some smoke then when it dissipated a bit it was in front of the subject and similar to a haze effect.  Less than desirable for sure. 
 

 

4 hours ago, alistermorton said:

Another thing to consider - should the smoke lie low or be allowed to rise? To stay low will need a different kind of fogger, usually with a chiller e.g. a glaciator or something similar, possibly using CO2. These are best hired as needed, as they're even more expensive than the options already under consideration. I've seen some good low foggers from Look Solutions, too. 

Other names to throw in the mix for research might be Swefog and Smoke Factory, but of course I have no idea if these are easily available in Aus.

This is one thing that does confuse me a little. I've seen some smoke fluids that say "low lying" but then I have seen dedicated machines like you describe normally using dry ice.  They give an effect of like low lying smoke in a mysterious forest or something.  Not after that effect at all. 

 

 

19 hours ago, timsabre said:

Hi and welcome to Blue Room. Assuming you are near a city in Australia, there will be lighting hire companies who would hire you a machine by the day to experiment with. That is the only way to find out what would suit your needs.

 

I wasn't able to find any people who rent those exact models but I did find a few different suppliers that rent a Rosco and a Antari.  They should at least give me a bench mark to compare to.  I also made a few other enquires with stagecraft companies that don't advertise the exact models they rent.  Any suggestions about how I should test them?  Will testing them outdoors give me a good indication of what they are like or am I really going to need to test them in a space like the one I would be utilizing? 

[sandall]

In the space

[alistermorton]

I'd test them in something like the space you'll be using. Be aware that they will possibly set your fire alarm off, so you'll need to (temporarily) disable it. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by alistermorton

[kerry davies]

2 hours ago, alistermorton said:

I'd test them in something like the space you'll be using. Be aware that they will possibly set your fire alarm off, so you'll need to (temporarily) disable it. 

Just a word of warning for the OP. I once had an LD hire a smoker which looked brilliant in the hire company car park. He set it on timer and by the time he managed to switch it off he had filled the venue solid, scared a backing singer who fled for the fire exit which was linked to the power to stop noise complaints and we lost sound and lights onstage. 

Test it in a similar space under similar conditions but be ready to cut it off and do have plans to ventilate the space.

[alistermorton]

Absolutely. We managed to fill our (relatively small) theatre with a proper fug that hung for ages in about three or four seconds just with a zr33 at full. 

[Don Allen]

The room ventilation is an important factor with smoke, haze and low lying fog machines. If you want a plume of smoke behind your subject, use a normal smoke machine from the side so the smoke starts to rise when it gets behind them. Providing you have your ventilation correct, you wont get smoke inside your photographic equipment. Experiment with side and back lighting or flash for an atmospheric effect, as lighting from the front may be too flat. Update your profile so people can see if they can help you.

[Jivemaster]

First sort out where and how the smoke will go away, 

You do lots of tests then do the single shot with the client in studio. With today's electronic everything don't overlook the possibility of combining a product shot and a smoke shot in computer rather than in camera.

[AussieTog]

On 2/8/2022 at 4:39 AM, alistermorton said:

I'd test them in something like the space you'll be using. Be aware that they will possibly set your fire alarm off, so you'll need to (temporarily) disable it. 

I had read about this but I asked various studios I rent if it would be an issue and they told me no.  When I was at university (studying photography) we had access to a sound stage and I know for a fact the tech told us if we ever wanted to use smoke we would have to go through a long paper work process to get the alarms isolated for the day and time we needed it.  
 

On 2/8/2022 at 8:04 AM, alistermorton said:

Absolutely. We managed to fill our (relatively small) theatre with a proper fug that hung for ages in about three or four seconds just with a zr33 at full. 

Wow that gives me a point of reference.  Thanks 🙂

On 2/8/2022 at 9:12 PM, Don Allen said:

The room ventilation is an important factor with smoke, haze and low lying fog machines. If you want a plume of smoke behind your subject, use a normal smoke machine from the side so the smoke starts to rise when it gets behind them. Providing you have your ventilation correct, you wont get smoke inside your photographic equipment. Experiment with side and back lighting or flash for an atmospheric effect, as lighting from the front may be too flat. Update your profile so people can see if they can help you.

When I shoot in a studio I am normally using a fairly long lens.  In other words I am fairly far away from the subject but I will still take your point about being key.  This is something I have some control over to a degree.

21 hours ago, Jivemaster said:

First sort out where and how the smoke will go away, 

You do lots of tests then do the single shot with the client in studio. With today's electronic everything don't overlook the possibility of combining a product shot and a smoke shot in computer rather than in camera.

I try to avoid composites where ever possible.  There is already digital assets out there that can replicate the effect without any smoke even being present.  Not the same tho.