Fire Safety Curtain BS EN regulations for Theatres

[Gregory Allan]

Hello people,

I am wondering if anyone knows of the best BS EN regulations that relate to Fire, Smoke & Safety curtains theatres. This would be mainly for the brail or straight-lift types.

I know of some BS's but I just want to make sure I do not spend money downloading the wrong ones or I may only need a select few.

Thanks in advance.

Gregory

[Dave m]

I am out of touch but don't local authorities cover fire regs?

I am sure that the GLC used to insist on fire curtains being lowered mid performance (interval) as proof whereas some are ok with a daily test preshow

[ImagineerTom]

Fire curtains are not generally required or inspected in anything like the same way they used to be; many places have decommissioned them completely and the regs, implementation of the regs and the licensing requirements around them varies wildly. You first question shouldn't be "what BS standards" but rather what the requirements and expectations are of the licensing and fire officers in the specific area it's being used.

[J Pearce]

6 minutes ago, ImagineerTom said:

many places have decommissioned them completely

Really? Every venue I've been into in the last 5 years that has a safety curtain has had it functional, and though not all of them show it to the audience it gets dropped overnight and the iron line is kept clear of any fixed scenery/equipment.

Are others finding venues have decommissioned or stopped regular use of their safety curtain?

[alistermorton]

7 minutes ago, J Pearce said:

Every venue I've been into in the last 5 years that has a safety curtain has had it functional, and though not all of them show it to the audience it gets dropped overnight and the iron line is kept clear of any fixed scenery/equipment.

Could that be a case of it not being a requirement any longer, but it's still a sensible and useful thing to do?

[J Pearce]

Oh absolutely. I was questioning the assertion that MANY have been decommissioned - because in my experience they have not.

[sandall]

Are we ignoring the fact that the OP is in Bangkok, & is enquiring about relevant BS, not what what may (or not) be practice in UK venues?

[kerry davies]

Since the Regulatory Reform Act changed the emphasis placing the duty on a "responsible person" to create and implement the specific Risk Assessment for site, procedures and personnel the regulatory aspect has lessened. Fire curtains were already becoming less welcomed and many have indeed been decommissioned when renovation or replacement time comes around. FWIW the regs on fire curtains are I believe BS8524-1 and BS 8524-2; Code of practice for application, installation and maintenance respectively.

However as the UK is less than enthusiastic about enforcing on fire it may be best to look for a US forum or to ask Bryson what happens in Canada. Fire curtains are still installed more frequently over there it seems. 

Just to note, Gregory. BS are not regulatory though laws may quote them and BS EN may or may not survive Brexit. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by kerry davies
E2A

[ImagineerTom]

5 hours ago, J Pearce said:

Really? Every venue I've been into in the last 5 years that has a safety curtain has had it functional, and though not all of them show it to the audience it gets dropped overnight and the iron line is kept clear of any fixed scenery/equipment.

Are others finding venues have decommissioned or stopped regular use of their safety curtain?

There’s 400+ theatres in the UK, many is not the same as “most”. 
 

That aside within 30miles of where I live I can list several major venues that either don’t have or have decommissioned the irons because the ongoing upkeep of them is disproportionate to their usefulness. I’m also involved in 3 new build venues in the uk and none of them have a fire curtain. 
 

They are useful for providing a sound barrier during the interval for resets but even in venue that “use” the irons in show scenarios I’ll bet you many don’t have it listed as a primary fire prevention device and as soon as their next refurb comes around they will be derated because the cost of making good a (usually) asbestos based ancient machine is significantly more than more modern fire control techniques. 
 

Are there irons out there being bounced…. Yes, would I be buying shares in a fire curtain manufacturing or maintenance company; absolutely not. 

[dje]

3 hours ago, kerry davies said:

BS EN may or may not survive Brexit. 

Off Topic but the BSi's membership of the CEN and CENELEC will "survive Brexit" so to speak.

Quote

CEN and CENELEC membership

The CEN and CENELEC General Assemblies, on 25 November 2021 voted overwhelmingly to confirm the British Standards Institution’s (BSI) continued membership of the two associations from 1 January 2022.

This decision follows careful consideration by the CEN and CENELEC members, taking into account the impact of the UK’s exit from the EU and is consistent with the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) agreed between the UK and the EU.

Continued BSI membership provides clarity and confidence for CEN and CENELEC’s stakeholders in the role of standards across Europe. It will help businesses to trade in a settled system and will support the UK’s long-term contribution to European and international standards.  All CEN and CENELEC’s stakeholders, including those from the UK, will continue to participate and contribute to standards development as today.

CEN and CENELEC voting procedure

BSI is classed as a non-EEA member of CEN and CENELEC, which affects a few specific voting situations. In the types of vote listed in subclause 6.1.4 of CEN/CENELEC internal regulations part 2 (e.g. new or amended European standards), weighted voting is applied. In the first stage, votes from all members are counted and the proposal is adopted if the weighted voting criteria are met. There are no changes to the UK in this stage; our weighting remains the same.

However, if the proposal is not adopted in the first stage the votes of only the EEA countries are counted separately. In this situation, the UK’s vote is not counted.

Therefore, if the proposal passes stage 1, all members are obliged to implement it, including BSI. If the proposal fails stage 1 but passes stage 2, all EEA members are obliged to implement it, along with any non-EEA members that voted positively. This means that if BSI voted negatively, and BSI’s vote were not counted toward the final approval of the proposal, it would not be obliged to implement the decision. If BSI voted positively, we would be obliged to implement the decision. If the proposal fails stage 2, there is no further action.

I was in the CEN/TC433 (ENTERTAINMENT TECHNOLOGY - EQUIPMENT, TECHNICAL INSTALLATIONS AND MACHINERY USED ON STAGES AND OTHER PRODUCTION AREAS WITHIN THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY) meeting where that was discussed and can vouch for the fact that the enthusiasm to maintain the relationship between BSi and CEN was supported both by the British and European parties.

 

https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/about-bsi/uk-national-standards-body/standards-and-eu-exit/

Edited January 25, 2022 by dje

[dje]

As for the fire curtain argument... conversely to Tom's points the Liverpool Playhouse had a new and fully functional fire curtain installed in 2017.

In the last 10 years I've done fire curtain refurbishments in numerous ATG receiving houses, some at great expense.

So whilst I'm not suggesting whether they're "in" or "out" as a blanket rule, there are certainly places where fire curtains are definitely still "in".