Dance Studio PA that can't be overdriven

[DanSteely]

Hi,

 

I'm looking to put together an economic and simple dance studio system where the teacher can come along with their phone and plug in via a 3.5mm jack plug and maybe via Bluetooth.

 

I'm thinking along the lines of a Behringer XR12 > power amp > speakers. The input channels would have hard limiting setup on the input channels.

 

Is there a simple midi controller with a couple of rotary pots that could control the I/p channel volume levels?

 

Or is there are there other solutions available?

 

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

 

Dan

[Stuart91]

The Formula Sound AVC is ideal for these kinds of scenarios.

 

The problem with a simple limiter is that you can still overheat the speakers if someone runs right up against it. (It'll sound very bad in the process, but they probably won't care)

You could set a limiter low enough that long-term overdriving wouldn't be a problem. But that means you'll be losing a huge amount of headroom.

 

AVC maintains the dynamic range so the speakers stay safe without the sound being squashed.

 

The challenge is making sure nobody tampers with the connections or bypasses it. But that's a physical problem rather than electronic.

[sunray]

The Formula Sound AVC is ideal for these kinds of scenarios.

 

The problem with a simple limiter is that you can still overheat the speakers if someone runs right up against it. (It'll sound very bad in the process, but they probably won't care)

You could set a limiter low enough that long-term overdriving wouldn't be a problem. But that means you'll be losing a huge amount of headroom.

 

AVC maintains the dynamic range so the speakers stay safe without the sound being squashed.

 

The challenge is making sure nobody tampers with the connections or bypasses it. But that's a physical problem rather than electronic.

And sadly it is a big challange.

The AVC is a lovely piece of kit but even with that I'd add a comp/limiter to provide a brick wall.

I did a couple of years of nightclub sound systems and we found no way to stop other experts (IE muppet DJ's) adjusting controls or bypassing any limiting action. The closest we got was adding a system to monitor the actual sound level and cutting power to the amp racks such as a http://formula-sound...ut-off-limiter/ but even that was found and bypassed.

Edited June 26, 2021 by sunray

[vlfaudio]

No need to overthink it. Source straight into your branded commodity priced powered speakers of your choice. MI gear is designed for "muppets"

I have a client who dry hires DJ Gear. They've only ever blown a powered speaker when the warehouse manager lent one to a mate who connected the output of an amplifier to the input.

I used to get paid to babysit those muppets. I advised that replacement drivers are cheaper than my day rate in most cases.

 

 

 

[TomHoward]

There’s a limit to how loud the headphone output or Bluetooth output will go, so could you just set it to that and let them use the volume on the phone to adjust?

 

I like Cloud stuff for remote volume, it’s bulletproof but expensive. The old analogue stuff like a CX261 and volume plate.

[J Pearce]

When I worked in this world my strategy was to install a system with sufficient headroom such that it would blow ears before drivers then make volume limiting a H&S concern of the teacher in charge of the room.

 

That said, deliberately knobbling the gain structure to limit total available output can be a good strategy, though can cause issues with quieter tracks or lower output devices (laptops vs phones with headphone limiting setup for example).

[Jivemaster]

There is NO plan to force dance leaders to use a reasonable sound level. Ultimately the only thing that works is banning that teacher from the building. I've seen dance leaders taking multi Kw systems into a studio, which usually makes the adjacent studios unusable. There probably exists a simple powered speaker that will work with some mobile phones, I doubt there is a system that works first time with all phones by bluetooth. Then there is the eternal cassette and CD and MD to cope with.

[DanSteely]

The Formula Sound AVC looks great but I suspect it will eat the entire budget (I've emailed FS for a price).

 

As Tom has said, setting the max volume to the output of a phone headphone o/p and limiting the Ch input and output Is I think is the only way forward on this budget.

 

The Behringer XR12 and power amp can be in a locked rack with the dance people only having access via a 3.5mm jack or a Bluetooth pairing.

 

Dynamically it won't sound as pretty as the processing in the Formula Sound AVC but in this context it will do the job.

 

I have several XR18's and from my experience they're rock solid from a reliability POV.

[sunray]

I've seen dance leaders taking multi Kw systems into a studio, which usually makes the adjacent studios unusable.

I have those T-shirts too.

 

installed 4 systems in a studio building in SW London. They spec'd the system, rack of players, 1U mixer and a pair of powered speakers per studio. IIRC JBL & 120w 12" in 3, 250W 15" in 4th.

 

A group moaned 85dB wasn't loud enough and brought in their own system, rack of 4 Crown 1200W and crazy stack of homemade black boxes. It rendered the whole complex of about 10 studios and both neighbouring properties unuseable, constantly being told to turn it down did nothing. Quite quickly I fitted Sentry's in the 4 biggest spaces set to 91dB which they tripped within the time it took to start the music, they twigged that and ran power leads to the next room and even tripped that Sentry through the wall.

 

[TomHoward]

What’s being done on the XR12 if it’s just for a stereo input? Could you just run a 3.5mm input via an analogue compressor if desired then into the power amp?

[Stuart91]

The Formula Sound AVC looks great but I suspect it will eat the entire budget (I've emailed FS for a price).

 

They do turn up second hand for more sensible money.

[DanSteely]

What's being done on the XR12 if it's just for a stereo input? Could you just run a 3.5mm input via an analogue compressor if desired then into the power amp?

 

I have a BSS DPR402 kicking around that would do the comp/limit job really well and I could provide it as part of the supplied package.

 

With the XR12 I have arguably the same in in DSP form and additionally EQ, multiple inputs and aux outputs to a possible sub etc.

 

The owner of the dance studio has a separate business next door and via some cat5 could have access to the mixer which could be an advantage.

[Junior8]

The Formula Sound AVC looks great but I suspect it will eat the entire budget (I've emailed FS for a price).

 

As Tom has said, setting the max volume to the output of a phone headphone o/p and limiting the Ch input and output Is I think is the only way forward on this budget.

 

Well it's certainly cheaper than upwards of £450 to stop people being stupid. Short of putting everything in a locked cupboard with a simple mixer input interface outside - a strategy I've seen used in a few unsupervised multi-purpose venues years ago - it seems the only cost effective way to do things.

[Jivemaster]

Decide what inputs you need first! Anything from phono to bluetooth may be requested. Then pick a cheap disposable boom box that meets some or most of your wishes.

 

Likely there will be input from extreme users but these have to be tempered by the neighbours' wishes.

 

Terralec have some interesting boxes as no doubt have others.

[Junior8]

This solution was so obvious I didn't suggest it myself as I assumed there must be some reason why it had been rejected already. It would have been my first option.