Do you use a headphone amp?

[samchurchill]

Hi, we’ve tended to use Behringer headphone amps to boost the wired IEM signal from our Midas DL16 and Behribger S16 stage boxes, but they’re less than ideal for several reasons:

 

They are all gradually breaking

They seem to introduce hiss and hum to varying degrees

The controls, which I’m sure are useful for some, but aren’t useful for us, just mean more fault finding when people inadvertently press buttons or twist knobs

 

 

I can’t get to the kit to test it at the moment, but I’ve been told that you can go direct from a DL16/S16 to our PM1 belt clips (which are passive). I’m intrigued by this, but somehow doubt there would be enough level from it. I wondered if anyone here has had experience of them?

 

I think the new P2 is the answer, but I really wanted to stay away from more batteries if I can!

 

Thanks,

 

Sam

[sunray]

I'll wait for the flack at the end.

 

I don't know the bits of kit being quoted here so I'll make some assumptions:

 

DL16 & S16 are balanced line level outputs from the desk?

 

PM1 are simply a volume control for headsets?

 

I made a 2U rack unit for a [cheap] recording studio which consisted of an amplifier module of about 4W, 4 jack sockets and a single volume control. That was then repeated 6 times. To give 6 channels of up to 4 headsets each, mains powered and out of harms way. A standard j-j lead fed each belt mounted volume control.

If I did it again I'd use XLR's to use standard mic leads and multicores etc.

 

Moderation: Unnecessary quote removed

[Simon Lewis]

If it was an event type scenario, using devices like the P1 or P2 and feeding them new batteries wouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

If it was more of an "ad hoc" rehearsal, church or similar setup where there might be multiple uses and users of the monitors, where the unit might be inadvertently left on etc., I would strongly avoid using battery powered gear.

We use a Tascam MH8 (with Behringer PM1) as a good sounding, well built headphone amp, but it does suffer from the "multiplicity of buttons" issue that you've mentioned. It does, however, mean that users can plug in and it just works. We keep the headphone amp out of harms way, and haven't had any "adjustments" made...

[richardash1981]

I made a 2U rack unit for a [cheap] recording studio which consisted of an amplifier module of about 4W, 4 jack sockets and a single volume control. That was then repeated 6 times. To give 6 channels of up to 4 headsets each, mains powered and out of harms way. A standard j-j lead fed each belt mounted volume control.

If I did it again I'd use XLR's to use standard mic leads and multicores etc.

 

This (plus some front panel controls) is what the Behringer racks are supposed to be - a bunch of balanced-line-to-headphone drive amplifiers, with 1/4" jack outputs.However they do seem have noise/hum/reliability issues - there is a 4-channel one around here, which manages to be bad differently on each of the four channels ...

Modern low-impedance earbuds (as opposed to traditional large-driver higher impedance studio headphones) do not need much voltage drive, so direct driving them from balanced line outputs does often work (depending on how loud you need to go, the phones used etc.). This also makes life hard for actual headphone amplifiers, because a pair of sensitive buds connected to a beefy amplifier designed to drive studio cans will make the noise and hum much more noticeable - and you can't turn it down (on the amp) when it comes from the power stage after the volume control. Use a set of insensitive headphones (or high impedance ones which need more volts and less amps) and you won't be able to hear the same level of noise and hum.

 

What is inside the Behringer amplifiers is not that different to a line driver - it's a volume control feeding a beefy op-amp type buffer. The problems in the one I have seem to come from some combination of:

• A marginal power supply design that gets very hot.
• A lot of capacitors in all the bits you don't want (the buttons and controls).
• Layout issues with channels 5 and 6 very close to the mains transformer, and unscreened audio leads across the chassis.

There is a warning that the line outputs may not like driving headphones direct in the long term (as they are nearly shorted), but in practice most equipment designers seem to design on the basis of being shorted and I haven't heard of damaged output stages (but these days that could be very hard to fix if it happens).

Edited April 22, 2020 by richardash1981

[sunray]

We use a Tascam MH8 (with Behringer PM1) as a good sounding, well built headphone amp, but it does suffer from the "multiplicity of buttons" issue that you've mentioned.

We did look at something, I think a Yamaha but the main reason we built a unit was to reduce the amount of adjustments so users had less to bugger up, certainly not for cost. the engraving alone was a favour at £100.

It does, however, mean that users can plug in and it just works. We keep the headphone amp out of harms way, and haven't had any "adjustments" made...

 

Ours were almost exclusively MH480's and I don't recall any issues other than we had to be very pedantic about booking them out and back in again. The solution was a series of wooden boxes with 4 slots, for 4 headsets, and they lived in a cupboard. only enough boxes were brought out for a session and any empty slots were very obvious.

 

Some people brought their own cans and I don't ever recall any level or matching problem.

 

All said and done this was a converted wooden garage done on the cheap 20 years ago, more than half on the users had never been in a studio before and were impressed with anything that worked. but some good quality recording were made there, including a couple of known artists.

 

[sunray]

I've been talking to a colleague and asked if he can remember what amplifier modules we used, to no avail but he reminded me about a system we provided for an artistic presentation where there was a requirement for all to wear headphones and every alternate person had to listen to the same sounds. I built the system up using a couple of old mini HiFi's to drive about 30 sets each.

[david.elsbury]

Since we’re just randomly commenting on stuff without knowing what gear the OP is talking about; I have a friend who made up looms in techflex with 2 audio lines (for balanced L and R on XLR) and a DC jack to power the behringer packs. They were really happy with how it turned out

[Stuart91]

looms in techflex with 2 audio lines (for balanced L and R on XLR) and a DC jack to power the behringer packs.

 

How far could that run before voltage drop became an issue?

 

I know a church that tried something similar (running DC to guitar cables via a floor box, so that the wall warts were out of the way). It was a dismal failure and was ripped out almost immediately.

[david.elsbury]

I think they were 5 or maybe 10m long? The psu units were located at the subsnakes on stage, probably for exactly that reason

[samchurchill]

Hi all, thanks for all the replies. To answer a couple of questions that have come up: yes, this is a portable church setup with the headphone amps in the racks on the side of the stage, and the exact models that we currently use are the Behringer HA4700 and HA8000. Hopefully this also explains why I’m trying to avoid batteries.

 

I think, from reading all of the replies, there’s probably no substitute for trying it when we get back into our venues. All of the musicians are on small closed ear buds, so I expect it’ll likely have enough power on the line level outs.

 

Thanks again

Edited April 23, 2020 by samchurchill

[sunray]

Hi all, thanks for all the replies. To answer a couple of questions that have come up: yes, this is a portable church setup with the headphone amps in the racks on the side of the stage, and the exact models that we currently use are the Behringer HA4700 and HA8000. Hopefully this also explains why I'm trying to avoid batteries.

 

I think, from reading all of the replies, there's probably no substitute for trying it when we get back into our venues. All of the musicians are on small closed ear buds, so I expect it'll likely have enough power on the line level outs.

 

Thanks again

 

 

I made a 2U rack unit for a [cheap] recording studio which consisted of an amplifier module of about 4W, 4 jack sockets and a single volume control. That was then repeated 6 times. To give 6 channels of up to 4 headsets each, mains powered and out of harms way. A standard j-j lead fed each belt mounted volume control.

If I did it again I'd use XLR's to use standard mic leads and multicores etc.

 

This (plus some front panel controls) is what the Behringer racks are supposed to be - a bunch of balanced-line-to-headphone drive amplifiers, with 1/4" jack outputs.

The thing we built was indeed a very basic version of the 4700 by the looks of it without most of the control. IE stereo in, volume, amplify, distribute. We deliberately avoided the tone, balance etc to stop the knob twiddlers upsetting things. That was all done in the control room.

 

Moving on these far too many years I'm not even sure what we made was stereo.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by sunray