LED tape

[sunray]

This afternoon I've been planning for a panto and the proposal is to light the forest with 8x 2,5m high columns (trees) of vertical RGB LED tape and no other lighting for big chunks of the scene.

 

My ecperience of LED tape to date is limited but my gut feeling is this is not likely to be enough. Admittedly it is a small stage 6m wide x <4m deep.

 

The director is asking for patchy lighting with big shadows on the scenery.

 

Are they barking up the wrong tree (sorry couldn't resist)?

[adam2]

I believe that it could be done. Use good quality bright LED tape. You may need to trial different brands of LED tape and compare relative light output. Several runs of tape per tree. Take great care with the wiring in order to minimise voltage drop.

 

24 volts is far preferable to 12 volts in this regard.

 

 

 

[Ynot]

LED tape - like most other LED kit - is getting steadily brighter for even the budget stuff these days.

Without knowing the stage size/set make-up etc it'll be hard to say whether or not using the best available tape will light your scene sufficiently or in the way that you/the director wants it done.

But if it's very moody and dim lighting you need it may very well fit the bill.

 

My 8 x 8 square chess board floor was built using 5050 LED tape (with 5v power and data from DMX driven Arduino) - about 70 LEDs per square - and was very bright even under perspex and frosted gel, casting a goodly amount of light upwards. There's a video of that in a different topic if you're interested.

 

If the panto's not imminent, it's probably worth getting a strip and giving it a try.

 

E2A - I'll second Adam's comment about volt drop - if you use long lengths make sure you feed the DC volts to BOTH ends of the tape - possibly even the mid-point as well, using decent gauge wire. Short lengths (up to a couple of metres) should be fine though with just both ends term'd.

And make sure you have beefy PSUs - the current draw of LEDs at low voltage is surprisingly high when you have longer lengths

Edited December 27, 2019 by Ynot

[musht]

Tape generally spooled in 5m reels, so 2.5m is a handy size.

 

60 (5050) LEDs/m be common density to use, reckon on around 14-18W a meter @12V, get higher 100/144m but V drop and heat become an issue. 30LEDs/m bit sparse.

 

5050 is dimensions of the RGB LED in mm.

 

12V tape will cut every 3 LEDs, 24V tape every 6. 24V tape will have no issues being fed single ended at 2.5 or even 5m.

 

Stick it to alloy or steel strip backing, wood is fine but metal backing is better, with VHB tape, bead of (neutral cure) silicone along edge and/or some cable ties.

The original sticky back gives up with heat expansion of tape, regard it for positioning only.

 

Adding a run of white tape , even 30LEDs/m open up colour palette, RGBW tape does exist but it`s relatively rare.

 

Pixel tape is worth considering for the application, it`s certainly not more expensive or complex hardware , its more a programming time sink.

Edited December 27, 2019 by musht

[henny]

One thing to note is your unlikely to get any definition to the shadows from such a defused soft source of light ,

 

If your going for the spooky forest type look you may be better side lighting possibly with some breakup gobos that the cast can pass in front and so cast shadows

[abbotsmike]

And on top of that, buy decent (meanwell are my goto) brand PSUs. Seen too many cheap ones fail!!

 

I'd second the recommendation for 24V tape. 24V pixel tape does exist if you look hard enough, as does 24V RGBW

[sunray]

Some useful replies, thanks.

 

These will be working on battery power as the plan is for the trees to be on casters and moved by dancers to confuse the players

 

The scene is to be a spooky during a 'black sky spell' and I think we're going to struggle to get decent shadows without lighting the set brightly. I have been thinking along the lines of a 10w LED flood mounted low down on the trees to light the legs well but less so on the upper bodies.

 

We'd opted to limit the length to 2.5m due to the 5m rolls and only been planning on white LEDs.

[musht]

(2.5m X 60) x 8 = 1200 RGB LEDs `should` be reasonably bright on your proposed stage dimensions.

 

Honestly, use pixel tape,

 

12V RGB , 12V battery, (sealed lead acid probably)+ wireless DMX receiver+ DMX LED driver , gives you solid colour per tree.

 

5V Pixel tape, power it both ends, 5V USB power bank+ wifi based receiver pixel driver, ESP8266 based etc, er, that`s it. Any colour or effect on any of your 1200 pixels individually with less gubbins and easier battery maintenance.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10pHG7_VIVltyqJK1Y0T5g3Iq6YJV2MnhMp3UcAVB-GA/edit#gid=961824890

[dmxlights]

If you go down the pixel rout here is a person who has a wireless pixel driver take a look at his ebay shop https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/smartshow-uk/m.html?ssPageName=STRK%3Anull%3AMESOI&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2654

I would go 5v pixel tape and use a usb battery bank or 12v RGB tape and a 12v battery may it be a SLA or 12v cordless drill battery pack if it has to be battery powered.

 

I have done both for different things for special effects on stage.

 

 

 

[sunray]

Ooohh now your being rotten, I had deliberately been looking at keeping this simple.

The current Directors idea for this fantasy scene is 8 dancers with a tree mounted on casters and a strip of white LED tape up the back of each, [partial UV highlighted dancers white tights and sleeves and fruits on the trees etc]. basically in a line running across the stage behind a midstage traveller, the traveller opens to a lit stage and the people have to cross to the other side of the trees. The voiceover witch [reminder from a previous scene] casts the spell, lightning and thunder to darknes except the trees and then the trees move around making the them get lost and leave in all directions except the correct side.

 

My interpretation is simplicity: a battery, a switch and lights but I'm seriously thinking a single point source of light on each tree will cast better shadows.

 

[adam2]

Diverging SLIGHTLY into d0m3stic matters, my bedroom is lit largely by RGB LED tape, a total of 10 meters of tape. I use it mainly for decorative effect but with all three channels on full it is sufficient for reading, and comparable in total light output to a twin 4 foot fluorescent light. The total loading of the LED tape is about 60 watts, and the fluorescent light is about 80 watts, for subjectively a bit less light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Don Allen]

The beam angle of the led tape should be your primary focus as you probably want about 45 degrees and as most led tape is about 120 degrees you are going to lose a lot of light going into areas where it is not needed. AS the tape is being mounted behind the trees as a sidelight, you could look at 12V DMX led strip lights as the lens will give you a brighter result. If you have the time to build the units yourself, you can make them cheaper and more compact, but it will take a lot of time.

 

Another alternative are the small RGBW plastic fanless led pars as they are cheap and some run off 12V. The ones I use have a HW-10.5V1A switch mode power supply,so should be able to run off 12V, but a 12V battery can be 13V so you need to be cautious. Be apity to have to use a voltage regulator and waste battery capacity. They have 3x1WR, 3x1WG, 3x1WB, 3x1WW leds so there is colour fringing but it is a budget light that has been used as footlights, wall uplights and LesMis barricade special. It has been advertised as 3W led versions but they might not be genuine 3W.

[sunray]

The beam angle of the led tape should be your primary focus as you probably want about 45 degrees and as most led tape is about 120 degrees you are going to lose a lot of light going into areas where it is not needed. AS the tape is being mounted behind the trees as a sidelight, you could look at 12V DMX led strip lights as the lens will give you a brighter result. If you have the time to build the units yourself, you can make them cheaper and more compact, but it will take a lot of time.

 

Another alternative are the small RGBW plastic fanless led pars as they are cheap and some run off 12V. The ones I use have a HW-10.5V1A switch mode power supply,so should be able to run off 12V, but a 12V battery can be 13V so you need to be cautious. Be apity to have to use a voltage regulator and waste battery capacity. They have 3x1WR, 3x1WG, 3x1WB, 3x1WW leds so there is colour fringing but it is a budget light that has been used as footlights, wall uplights and LesMis barricade special. It has been advertised as 3W led versions but they might not be genuine 3W.

I'm going to have to do some experimenting before we go too far. Realistically I have loads of 10W 12V CW LED floods and I think the shadows they cast from the single point source may be what were looking for [and thinking about it I have some RGB versions too so could do flashing colours] and they will be simplicity at its best, maybe with some sort of barn doors to limit the side spill.

 

I've ordered a roll of CW LED tape and we'll have a little early play next year.

All the cheap LED PAR's I've come across so far contain a small [and very noisy] fan. I had thought about disconnecting the fans but suspect the several I've opened have failed due to overheating.

I have 2 types [4 of each] 54 LED's & 7 tricolour but only use them when noise isn't an issue and not on stage during a show.

 

Genuine 3W?Ebay specials quote something like 18x3W... 220V 20W. On the bench total mains current measured as 45 to 50mA ish or 10-12W including the 2W fan! I'm sure some are genuine but not at the same price level.

 

Can you quote an example of the fanless type please.

 

Diverging SLIGHTLY into d0m3stic matters, my bedroom is lit largely by RGB LED tape, a total of 10 meters of tape. I use it mainly for decorative effect but with all three channels on full it is sufficient for reading, and comparable in total light output to a twin 4 foot fluorescent light. The total loading of the LED tape is about 60 watts, and the fluorescent light is about 80 watts, for subjectively a bit less light.

LED lighting has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years and I'd hope, expect, 60W will outshine 80W of flou... except that I have known a number of situations where fluo tubes have been replaced with LED versions at half the power and after a short while have been changed back to fluo with very obvious light increase and shadow decrease. I get the impression that tape is brighter than the fluo tube style LED but this may simply be a control gear compromise or something.

 

 

 

I Think I've got to the conclusion [pre testing] that the requirement will be producing the required shadows rather than the light levels.

 

[Don Allen]

This is a link to the RGBW 12W LED PAR that I purchased initially to use as 12V lights with wireless DMX for a lily float for an outdoor ballet, but their beamwidth was too narrow. The light is fanless due to the low power rating. It has since been put to use for many other tasks as the colour fringing has not been a problem.

 

This is a link to the 3oW RGB UV COB LED PAR that I bought two samples as they seemed too good to be true. It only drew 6W at full power and had non insulated pins on the mains plug so not AU plug.Closer inspection revealed that the earth wire was cut off inside the light but light did not have a double insulated symbol so failed PAT. The switch mode power supply was 14W so could not supply 30W. The COB led was actually a 4in1 LED with 4 emitters. But it was fanless so quiet.

 

In general for fanless types, I buy IP65 rated LED PAR's. It means they generally come with waterproof tails, but they are now appearing with Powercon True1 for mains and XLR 3 pin DMX.

[Marineboy63]

Even the best Directors are not necessarily good Lighting Designers.......(No, really..)

 

One of the LD's jobs is to take what Directors ask for and interpret it into something that will work. I would suggest you do as asked with the LED strips but also have some side light, G.C. etc ready that you can add to light the actors. otherwise you'll end up with the oft heard comment, "It looks lovely but I can't see the actors faces."

 

Belt and braces every time....

(no patronising intended :-)