Those Darn Mac Laptops!

[Emissary]

Hi all,

 

First post, been lurking awhile but now has a reasonable question.

 

I work at an corporate AV company, we do lots of events and lots of video.

 

BUT

 

Those darn Mac laptops always cause problems. As follows.

 

Wont output video through switcher (VP773 or similar, suspect HDCP or Deep colour)

Wont output video through SDI distribution (Blackmagic Micro series, Decimator, suspect as above)

Refusal to output reasonable resolutions (1080p etc, seemingly regardless of what EDID it sees)

 

We have a good understanding of EDID and a good understanding of HDCP but yet these darn Macs win everytime.

 

We understand the HDCP thing with Macs where they often will decide if they are going to send an HDCP protected signal or not based on what compliance the first device it sees on the HDMI network has.

 

 

Anyway, do you guys have these problems? What do you think we have wrong? They could all be symptoms of the same problem or mistake.

 

Accepting stupid answers for a stupid question :P

 

Cheers!

[Shez]

We understand the HDCP thing with Macs where they often will decide if they are going to send an HDCP protected signal or not based on what compliance the first device it sees on the HDMI network has.

It's not just the first device - it's the entire chain right up to the display. If any one component isn't compliant, there'll be no output.

 

I regularly have to deal with mac laptops too and they're always a pain!

[empyfree]

We use macs via Decimator (md-hx) sdi converters all the time. Into a variety of switchers. Usually if you’re having HDCP issues it will be a non compliant bit of kit further downstream that the Mac doesn’t like. Changing the converter at this point won’t help.

 

We moved away from Kramer switchers at around the same time we started using macs, but in the transition period I do remember having to use VGA to hook up into a Kramer 727 as it invoked a HDCP blackout on HDMI.

[Jevans]

To be completely fair, any HDCP compliant Windows laptop will (should) do exactly the same things.

 

Try holding down the option key while in video settings to get access to the full resolution list, regardless of EDID.

[timsabre]

To be completely fair, any HDCP compliant Windows laptop will (should) do exactly the same things.

 

Try holding down the option key while in video settings to get access to the full resolution list, regardless of EDID.

 

I have battled with a few macs into a Blackmagic mixer (which requires exactly the resolution / framerate specified) and found that even if you manually set a resolution, they do not necessarily output what you asked for...

[Joe Fernand]

HDCP should be triggered by the Content you are playing rather than simply being 'on' all of the time and as others have said when you are playing back HDCP protected content if any one device in the signal path is not HDCP compliant the Source should stop what it is doing.

 

What content are you playing, how are you playing it and which Output on the MacBook are you using?

 

I've seen folk having issues with some Switch gear which supports 59.94Hz but not 60.00Hz

 

If HDCP is the issue you could try an HDFury Integral, Linker or Vertex between the Source and your Switcher - that way you can 'isolate' HDCP!

 

Joe

[ninjadingle]

Macs have been outputting HDCP regardless of content for a long time, we have the issue of lecture capture in our lecture theatres so obviously this isn't HDCP compliant, but Macs will just black screen all the time no matter what.

 

The only rock solid solution we have found so far is to continue using VGA for Macs. Far from perfect, but the only way we can guarantee the content displaying every time.

[mac.calder]

There are certainly some sh!tty drivers in OSX on the Macbook and Macbook airs >2015. I know it is a driver issue because we had a client with bootcamp - and the issue was only present when booted into OSX, and it tended to be primarily EDID negotiation related more than HDCP.

 

The issue with OSX and HDCP is that IF the Macbook detects that the first device is HDCP compliant (irrespective of the rest of the chain) it will enable HDCP for EVERYTHING. If your first device is NOT HDCP compliant (or HDCP is disabled) it will then disable HDCP on the output & just black out HDCP content. You will then have issues with a Macbook if there is a non-HDCP compliant device AFTER an HDCP compliant device.

 

So our solution was to always put either a decimator or an EDID minder directly after the device with a very specific EDID - 1080p@50 4:2:2 - and HDCP disabled. No issues since doing that.

[timmeh2]

Hi

 

At the risk of being flamed, I'd like to point out that a solution would be to use legacy kit that doesn't know or care about HDCP.

 

We still use XP on our presentation laptops for that very reason and output 1080p with no issues at all.

 

Macs, generally, are a law unto themselves. The same can now be said for W10-based PCs.

 

All the best

Timmeh

[gyro_gearloose]

Don't talk to me about Windows and HDMI outputs! Over panto last year I needed to have two computers connected to our cinema projector via HDMI. Each computer had its own monitor showing the software control panels, and they were both connected to the projector through an HDMI switcher. All went well until I switched from one PC to the other on the switcher. As soon as I did that, the computer I'd just switched away from promptly 'forgot' about having a second monitor, which messed up the software. Switching back the the first computer confused Windows as it thought a new display had been connected! Apparently this is a 'feature' of Windows which has never been fixed.... <_<

[david.elsbury]

What?!? What switcher are you using?

[empyfree]

Probably a crash switch, direct physical switch rather than a proper “switcher” with its own edid.

 

I liked the approach of Rob, Fatboy Slims visuals Guru, he had a wooden board with his Mac PSU’s and a pair of decimators mounted to it, that way no matter where he rocked up his macs had a familiar edid as the first thing in the chain and would behave well.

[Joe Fernand]

'Constant' EDID' is what is required of the next device along the Video path from the PC/Mac - that way the PC/Mac have no idea of a change happening on the Monitor Out socket.

 

Devices such as HDFury (Dr HDMI, Integral, Linker and Vertex) and Decimator can provide that functionality - for 1080p Sources the HDFury DR HDMI (1x1) is a relatively low cost option.

 

Joe

[Pete McCrea]

It does very much come down to managing HDCP compliance and getting the chain right.

 

As others have said above, if you have a device that can set the correct EDID and also HDCP status that will help a massive amount. Decimators, ImageProII, HD Fury etc will let you do this.

 

If you can then convert to SDI and don’t need copy protected content, that will make for an easier switching and distribution system. But it is possible to do it all over hdmi if you can manage HDCP in the devices in the chain.

 

Macs can be seen as a law unto themselves, but as they’re designed more for consumer environments where your tv is compliant then I can completely understand the always enable HDCP approach. That’s where as events professionals it’s our job to understand the equipment and how to work with it.

 

I have also seen Mac laptops set to 1280x720@50hz to connect to a black magic ATEM not work. On connecting the laptop to an imagePRO the MAC was outputting 1280x720@49.99 according to the IPII, but the ATEM wouldn’t see it due to that 0.01hz difference.

[mac.calder]

That was exactly what we were seeing - refresh rates out SLIGHTLY which was causing EDID negotiation to fail - 59.96 instead of 59.94Hz, 49.99Hz instead of 50Hz etc. These issues disappeared when booted into a Windows environment. I find it a bit amusing though - in the 'old days' the Extron 203 and similar VGA "interface" boxes were put on jobs in huge quantities when interfacing VGA devices over long distances. DVI and HDMI both came out and people go "We don't need no stinking interfaces."... Sorry guys, they are still equally necessary in pro environments.