PA for Male Voice Choir advice required

[octopub]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum so a big hello to you all!I'm after some advice and recommendations for sound equipment for my male voice choir of approximately 30 voices and 1 piano (electric and non electric - depending on venue)It will be used for performances (up to 200 people in the audience) and recording the performance and rehearsals.It's mostly ensemble singing but there is some solo work and a spoken MC.Can you recommend a desk, speaker, mics and recording device please?I'm relatively new to all this so ease of use would be good. If there is anything I have overlooked please let me know.

My Budget is around £1200Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions. Much appreciated.

 

[paulears]

Do you want to record the choir, or amplify them, or provide announcements and intros? All these require totally different approaches. Recording them in a way that sounds similar to commercial releases means distant miking and probably direct to stereo. Making them louder - which seems a bit streamge with 30 people needs something different. 'Repairing' balance, where a soloist just can't compete with louder but probably less important voices means spot mics for these people and a sound operator skilled in blending these things together. There isn't really one thing you can buy? Sound soaking venues can be helped by tricks, but more huge sounding venues like churches are the opposite - and need taming.

 

I realise you probably do want a one size fits all system but ignoring the two speakers on poles approach for the introducion stuff - are there issues you need to solve? Bad balance, weak voices, unskilled singers, conductor with no sense of natural balance, or just what?

 

Your profile info is a bit thin, so we don't even know where in the world you are - this changes things too?

[octopub]

Hi paulears. I would like to record the choir when singing indoors and apmplfy them for outdoor events with option to use the equipment for announcements and intros when required. Recodings made would be for our own use only and for sound clips on a website. There are no issues that need solving, just looking for general advice. Appreciate it’s a little vague. We are in the uk and sing in halls and churches and occasionally outside.

[timsabre]

As Paul says you will need a different set of equipment for recording than what you need for amplification. Amplifying a choir and making it sound nice is a very difficult job (outside it is extremely difficult). Recording less so, if you have an acoustically suitable room.

 

It's not just a case of buying equipment and off you go - I would advise finding a sound company near you who can show you how to do what you want.

 

For recording I would consider using a standalone digital recorder like the Zoom ones, these have built in mics and don't take much setting up - just need suitable positioning.

[octopub]

I’ll do that. Thanks for taking the time to reply guys. Appreciated.

[paulears]

I get the impression you got a bit lost? If you record for whatever reason, you would probably put a pair of microphones in a very specific orientation over the top of the conductors head. This configuration would be totally unable to be connected to speakers to make the choir louder. To make a choir of 30 louder is a very, very tricky job - multiple microphones, which will be different to the recording mics, and even then, they work best by being focused on the people you need to make louder. Almost inevitably, some choir members will be very quiet and sing wonderfully - while those that are loud and have very predominant voices are often the less good singers.

 

What would be best would be to do a recording on anything - begged or borrowed, and hear what they sound like. Then report back.

 

30 people should not need amplification. Almost any PA system will do for a few "good evenings..." we can advise on recording gear - which at least is more 'standard' while amplification sadly isn't.

 

The zoom mentioned above is always a good starting point and modestly priced.

[Yorkie]

Tell us where in the world you are and someone may be local to offer advice

[S&L]

I suspect choirs is something many members here 'do' occasionally - hired in for the job, usually when there are more than a few hundred in the audience or when it's outdoors.

mic'ing and amplifying a choir outdoors needs a little experience and the outdoor element is going to depend on how many bodies, what the terrain and weather protection is like etc. I did an open air event in the grounds of a castle a few years ago - the equipment used would be of little use for a village hall indoors with 200 people in the audience, the value of the system (to say nothing of the expertise), to work completely outdoors in all weathers was well over £10k. it was definitely a job for professionals and I would venture to say that almost any outdoor job would more wisely benefit from bringing in a PA contractor. the same contractor would be able to provide recording facility for mix later by them or others.

 

indoors, in a village hall 30 good male voices singing to 200 is a little like one person singing to 4 in a living room - no amplification is required and it can be counter productive. IF mics were used to amplify the choir to 200, you would likely need a little expertise to set well - it's a little bit more delicate than for a single guy singing to an audience of the same size using a handheld mic. - it isn't rock n roll, you can't just keep turning it up until it's deafening, you wouldn't use more than 3 mics at a distance and in a room that size it's doubtful you would get more than a little lift - more likely an experienced had would leave them off in the speakers.

 

amplifying a single talking voice and a keyboard to accompany 30 voices is somewhat more straightforward. a couple of decent (not disco Dave) 15" speakers should get the job done for a keyboard that is just backing, add a decent mixer and a half decent mic and you are there - but it's won't address your recording, choir or outdoor issues.

[sunray]

I do 2 outdoor services a year where the Salvation Army songsters perform to around 500 people (used to be more like 1500 but dwindled over the years) there are 20 to 30 singers and usually perform in 2 ranks.

 

Originally I used 4 mics in a row across the front and about 10ft behind the speakers and yes I struggled. The slightest change of wind played havoc and to be honest I was never sure how much benefit there was.

 

A few years ago I inadvertently released the channel on button along with the PFL on a couple of channels and I found I had oodles of gain available and there is real benefit.

 

I still put 4 mics up but check which pair give me the best GBF and use those, the others get left off.

 

Definitely a case of less is more.

[Jivemaster]

Start with a simple recording, on anything, probably from the back of the room, then listen critically to it. A recording on cassette, minidisc or a mobile phone will be fine.

 

If some sections are too quiet relative to others -you will hear it. If the keys and/or compere are too quiet you will hear it. Then you will know what needs fixing with PA and from that what PA you need.

 

If your 30 member male voice choir needs amplification to perform to an audience of 200 something is wrong that PA will not cure unless they are all small children.

[paulears]

The back rows also suffer because very often that's where the better but less, er, photogenic folk get put - mic on stands out front aimed at mouths look dreadful and only really work for the closest singers, so my favourite trick for big, but less trained choirs is to clip a few omni radio lava to the back of people's collars so you can get a bit more from the back - especially when there are lots of baritones and basses - who often are very weak in volume, yet get stuck at the back! This works surprisingly well.

[sunray]

mic on stands out front aimed at mouths look dreadful and only really work for the closest singers.

couldn't agree more, I try to get the mics up high (full height of stand and boom)and a little way in front to avoid too many 'hot spots'.

The back rows also suffer because very often that's where the better but less, er, photogenic folk get put, so my favourite trick for big, but less trained choirs is to clip a few omni radio lava to the back of people's collars so you can get a bit more from the back - especially when there are lots of baritones and basses - who often are very weak in volume, yet get stuck at the back! This works surprisingly well.

when I have done junior school choirs I place mics behind the front row where the fidgeters who tend to be quieter are hidden. The little darlings in the front row are ALWAYS heard.