Student PPE

[gareth]

Interesting topic in the STSG forum - but it seems most people are not able to reply directly in there, so I'll put my thoughts into a post here instead.

 

Particularly this post ... I can't quite work out, if the venue's LX bars are dropped in to a comfortable rigging height and there's no-one working above, what risk is present which necessitates the wearing of hard-hats. Anyone care to have a guess?

[timsabre]

Interesting topic in the STSG forum - but it seems most people are not able to reply directly in there, so I'll put my thoughts into a post here instead.

 

Particularly this post ... I can't quite work out, if the venue's LX bars are dropped in to a comfortable rigging height and there's no-one working above, what risk is present which necessitates the wearing of hard-hats. Anyone care to have a guess?

 

Banging heads on bars / fixtures while ducking underneath? (although I seem to do this more when wearing a hard hat due to the unexpected increase in the height of my head...)

[indyld]

A piece of falling scenery...

 

Construction sites often require hats regardless of specific risk because it simplifies management. Viewed in that way, I've never understood this continual hats on, hats off in theatre. Invariably it takes more time and thought to ones own hatted state and the ever changing situation than it does to just wear the bl... thing.

 

Hi Viz similar. Keep putting vests on and off, usually ending up out in the road without it. I just leave it on.

 

E2A: Many large scale events sites are much more like construction in the culture of this kind of thing. Theatre still has an element of quaint novelty when it comes to PPE management.

[gareth]

Large scale event sites - yes, agreed. Lots of people working in many different areas doing many different jobs, plant being driven around, etc. Plenty of reasons for full PPE there.

 

What raises my eyebrows sometimes, though, is an insistence on wearing, say, hi-viz on a theatre stage where there are no risks present which appear to suggest that this is necessary. At least the author of that post in the STSG forum doesn't make their students wear hi-viz when rigging lanterns! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

[ninjadingle]

You can argue that putting PPE on also has the effect of heightening the senses of the wearer - they will subconsciously take more care because they have put PPE on. A blanket policy removes that and it becomes the norm.

 

Also PPE should be one of the last control measures in a safe system of work. So if you've reduced the risk sufficiently PPE is unnecessary!

[gareth]

 

Also PPE should be one of the last control measures in a safe system of work. So if you've reduced the risk sufficiently PPE is unnecessary!

 

This is a very good point, one that I often find myself arguing but which doesn't seem to hold much water these days. If you need to enforce the wearing of hard hats just for rigging lanterns on a bar at stage height, then you need to take a good look at what the perceived risks are, why they exist, and how you can remove them. Likewise hi-viz on a stage - why is it deemed necessary, what are the underlying risks, and why do they even exist?!

[indyld]

You can argue that putting PPE on also has the effect of heightening the senses of the wearer - they will subconsciously take more care because they have put PPE on. A blanket policy removes that and it becomes the norm.

 

I'm not sure that offsets the number of times I've seen situations where the usual response would be a bit of extra PPE (such as hat when working under someone, or hi viz when venturing off into a traffic area) but, for various reasons that are mostly convenience or forgetfulness, someone ends up not donning the PPE "for just a quick job, and my hat is in the stalls" or "I left my hi viz at the stage door while we were unloading washing machines and now I need to be outside the dock." If it's been decided that PPE is the thing in a situation then trying to keep up with that is best done by just putting the stuff in place and leaving it. Honestly, sometimes theatre practice does my head in....

 

I know that theatre loves to find reasons to avoid a lot of PPE as I've worked through since none of us wore harnesses while jumping the fly rail to shimmy along a bar, right up to times where we just did what any builder does and put on the gear at the start of the day and take it off at the end. One can spend ages coming up with reasons why I don't need my hat and hi viz on, analysing each risk as it arises, deciding that actually this time I would rather have a hat on, go look for it while grumpy person up ladder starts snarling, or chase down the last remaining hi viz that is on the rack etc. Meanwhile "What the f** are you doing? Stop faffing about and get out to the truck and give me a hand with this..."

 

While PPE may be the last line of defence, it doesn't make it any less necessary IF anyone thinks it necessary at all. When working with students, we tend to have an 'overly cautious' approach with certain rules that apply regardless of the actual current risk. And still they will forget/circumvent then when it seems more convenient. They will get mixed up between "No one in the danger zone when rigging overhead" and "put a hard hat on when footing a ladder", or forget the hat completely because, well, there's a lot going on. One thing that drives me mad is the constant steelies on that seems to hold up the start of any practical activity and the "Oh, I forgot mine today" faffing that isn't gonna fly in the real world as it basically means they are sitting this one out. Working today? Put gear on, work, go home, take gear off.

 

And this happens in the pro world too - the more complex a ruleset you have, the less likely it is that someone has managed to implement it correctly at any one time. Pro theatre is full of people tipping boxes in plimsols and "oh, yeah, I sometimes wear steelies for, you know, the really dangerous stuff....".

 

This is why construction sites have blanket policies regardless of the actual risk at any one moment. It's more efficient and easy to understand to a point where there is never any question of what anyone should be wearing at any given moment during any building activity.

 

I'm not suggesting that all schools H&S policies and practices are well thought out by competent professionals, but at least if they err on the side of caution their non-competence doesn't really matter.

:P

[cedd]

I'd say for rigging lanterns that the most relevant piece of PPE might be a set of gloves. A lantern might be hot, or a finger might be trapped in a clamp as a heavy fixture (mover maybe) is placed on a bar. It's the little risks like that which are probably the most common and probably the least mitigated against.

[paulears]

For a flown in bar, my risk assessments reveal no requirement to wear hardhats. I'm even more unsure about safety shoes? When there is a risk of something falling on your head from above - its hard hat time. When there is a risk of heavy items hitting your feet, then it's foot protection. I'm not really sure what the risk is of a flown in bar. In fact, you don't wear head protection for a bar flying in - and that is where there's more risk of getting your head hurt.

 

I tend to agree that if there's a risk - it's fingers that usually bear the brunt of the injuries.

[david.elsbury]

Again, let’s hide the STSG forum if normal people aren’t good enough to reply to posts there. Is it that we don’t have anything to contribute? This thread proves that’s not the case.

 

Much less hassle and avoids duplication of replies and splitting up useful content that way.

[paulears]

The intention was to encourage membership of the group by allowing non-members to read it. Personally, I don't see the dual posts where one of 'their' topics deserves a wider participation a problem?

[ninjadingle]

Or for those of us who have worked in schools in the past but have now moved on - we still have a wealth of experience to offer!

[Brian]

...let’s hide the STSG forum...

 

That's for the STSG to decide on.

[indyld]

For a flown in bar, my risk assessments reveal no requirement to wear hardhats. I'm even more unsure about safety shoes? ....

 

... In fact, you don't wear head protection for a bar flying in - and that is where there's more risk of getting your head hurt.

 

Steelies? Like dropping a 1K on your foot or an upended Source Four Zoom 15/30 falling over... there is quite a list of potential risks to feet even when rigging on a bar already flown in. The fact that an experienced and competent person is 'unsure' is precisely why sites adopt a simple policy. With such a policy, there is no need for anyone to be unsure.

 

While there are additional ways of mitigating risk on the deck during bar flying, in and out, such as the most obvious "get outta the danger zone", that doesn't mean that we must continue to keep putting hats on, hats off for flying the bar, being on the deck during the fly, rigging on the bar etc. In fact, quite the opposite. This just reinforces the point of the strange attitude that theatre people have to basic PPE - instead of keep looking for ways to ditch it, what if we just left it in place? People on building sites are not continually, at every moment, at risk from all the potential hazards that might relate to basic PPE (despite measure higher up the hierarchy) but they don't keep taking it on an off.

 

When it comes to students I know many that 'know' all about risk analysis, can produce long and well thought out risk assessments with appropriate and carefully planned measures and often come back from professional placements pointing out huge holes in the professional theatres risk management chain at a very high level of thought. Yet still, I find myself pulling up these very intelligent and well trained young people up with a "Wouldn't it be safer and make a lot more sense NOT to do it like that?!" because they have a frightening lack of practical risk awareness and understandable shortage of experience which I can only assume I also had when I was that age - and probably had middle-aged instructors keeping me safe too.

 

In these situations, a simple and unambiguous set of rules gives a stable base where no one has to be unsure. The only time these blanket measures would be incorrect is if they introduce additional and greater risks.

 

The way that people in theatre regularly drop hardhats while putting them on and off is a risk in itself! :P

[david.elsbury]

...let’s hide the STSG forum...

 

That's for the STSG to decide on.

Does that mean you’re part of the STSG?