Which Lighting Desk

[J Pearce]

As it happens our Eos makes quite a significant noise - not terribly loud, but very penetrating and annoying once you've become aware of it.

 

Is it one of the older ones? The newer processor trays do seem quieter, comparing an original Ion I used to use a lot with a new one elsewhere.

I've certainly never had an issue with our Element, I'd guess another factor is an Eos is much more likely to be working harder than an Element.

[Brian]

Re. the fat frog - I'd stay away from any desk that's old enough that it has a floppy drive. The fat frog was a great desk for the money but the fact is it's over a decade old now and it's getting difficult to get the disks, and they're pretty unreliable storage media.

 

Except a few people report getting a USB replacement working on them.

[Salazar]

 

Did like the look of the ETC element but we need something relatively quiet as the audience is around a meter from the desk. Looking at the tutorials the fan seems quite loud.

 

Ben

 

The ETC Element I use every day is completely silent. Absolutely no sound comes from it at all...

 

Ken H.

[Guest]

Hi Ben

 

I would recommend either the Jester 48ML as you suggested or maybe if you want a more advanced console look at the Solution or FLX.

If second hand is the route you'd prefer to go, the original Frog range would be ideal. As you pointed out some people found the consoles hard to use, but after owning a Fat Frog and using it on many events, it would be ideal for what you want to do.

 

Edward

[BenEdwards]

Thanks for all the replies. Am I correct in thinking Zero88 are the only people who did desks with a standard A/B bank for generics and a separate set of controls for intelligent's. Also it looks like the ETC element can have its faders configures A/B but was wondering if anyone else has this as I think it is the way we are going to have to go.

 

A used Leapfrog 48 or a Jester ML48 seem the best fit in terms of price and functionality. Think the other frog ones are a bit old. What I don't seem to be able to find is a list of zero88 desks and when they were made, this would be very useful.

 

Ben

[Guest]

Hi Ben,

 

Zero88 are the main manufacturer of consoles which still use dual preset configuration with moving light functionality too.

Back in the early days dual prest was how almost all consoles were laid out.

 

A Jester ML48 sounds good for you, but if you did want the functionality of having separate submaster faders as well as the dual preset faders, then a second hand LeapFrog48 would do the job nicely.

 

Edward

[vinntec]

You can find information about all the "legacy" consoles here although you need to do some checking to work out roughly when each one appeared if it matters. If you are thinking of a Leap Frog 48, which is almost identical to the current Solution (apart from colour) then beware that there is also a Leapfrog console (without a space) which is a slightly bigger Fat Frog in terms of the number of fixtures and a very different animal. There is a very wide range of consoles to choose from, even if you stick with Zero 88. If you are planning to keep the console for 10 years+ then you should seriously be thinking about getting funding for a new console in which case probably FLX would be the first one to check. Zero 88 technical support has always been very good which of course will be limited if you go for a legacy console.

[jonhole]

Am I correct in thinking Zero88 are the only people who did desks with a standard A/B bank for generics and a separate set of controls for intelligent's ... as I think it is the way we are going to have to go.

We're not the only ones, but we probably have the most choice. What I would say is A/B crossfade is a pretty "old fashioned" method of controlling lights, and doesn't really work when you get into the world of LEDs and Moving Lights. Having 48 intensities to set per cue is one thing, but when each of those fixtures has 10 / 20 / 30 settings each, it's not so practical!

 

What I don't seem to be able to find is a list of zero88 desks and when they were made, this would be very useful.

I don't have exactly that, but hopefully I can summarise:

 

The "Frog Range" of consoles was massively successful, and included Frog, Fat Frog, Leap Frog, Bull Frog and Mambo Frog. I can't remember when we discontinued them, but the last software update for them was April 2009.

 

The Jester Range kind of replaced these consoles - similar feature set (plus a little bit) in a smaller and cheaper package. The currently available versions of Jester are Jester 12/24, Jester 24/48, Jester ML 24, Jester ML 48 and TL Xtra. The ML / TL consoles have control of 30 LEDs / Moving Lights / other fixtures. These are still available. The last major software release was several years ago, and since then there have been smaller software updates to support new components etc.

 

The progression of the Frog Range lead to a new range of consoles called Leap Frog 48 & Leap Frog 96. These were laid out similarly, same colour and same name to make them feel familiar, but actually there was very little that was similar - it was completely new hardware and software (easiest way to separate these consoles are the Frog Range all have floppy disk, whereas the Leap Frog 48 & 96 have USB).

 

About 3 years ago, the Leap Frog 48 & 96 were relaunched as the Solution and Solution XL. This moved us away from the days of old, and helped customers separate these consoles from the old Frog range. There are still regular software updates for both of these ranges.

 

Last year we launched FLX - which is a brand new console, running the ZerOS operating system. This will become the new platform for Zero 88 going forward, and has a greater cycle of free software releases continuously adding new features (approximately 3 or 4 a year).

[dbuckley]

Am I correct in thinking Zero88 are the only people who did desks with a standard A/B bank for generics and a separate set of controls for intelligent's.

 

The LSC Maxim, and the ETC Congo Kid are a couple of items that spring to mind as desks that have old-school A/B faders. The Maxim is a nice desk, a local school has one, but I'm told that the MIDI implementation is busted, and LSC don't plan on fixing it. Not played with a Congo.

[Don Allen]

The LSC Maxim with PatPad option lets you use the top row of faders as presets or as intensity level for leds or movers. It was a good concept and I have a 48/96 with patpad, but you have to use some of the bottom scene faders to record colour paletes to speed up programing. Another limitation is the Patpad sliders, hard to get used to. It works in a fashion but they never got the midi trigger working so you cannot use the desk with SCS11. If you have the desk set up for midi triggers, it crashes every time you turn it on and does a complete reset. One good point with the wider or larger Maxim desks was the third row of Group faders,

 

I ended up buying a LSC Mantra Lite , which is a very good desk for leds, but lacks encoders for movers, as a more expensive big brother will come out eventually. It has a limitaion of 24 fixtures, which can be overcome by buying fader wings. It is a new desk, so would be worth a look. It is available in the UK lca .

[Stuart91]

Zero 88 technical support has always been very good which of course will be limited if you go for a legacy console.

 

One of the big advantages of Zero88 is you can phone them up and actually get someone who knows the older consoles. I rang them a while ago with a weird glitch on an original Fat Frog and they were able to solve it instantly.

[kgallen]

One of the big advantages of Zero88 is you can phone them up and actually get someone who knows the older consoles.

And being in Bristol he's a 30-45 minute drive to the HQ/factory in Cwmbran.

On a related note, Ben if you're considering a Zero88 console, just go on one of the free training courses there, then you get to play hands on to help you with your decision making. Alternatively they'll have old and new consoles there and I'm sure they'd be happy to provide a demo and let you have a play.

[jonhole]

Alternatively they'll have old and new consoles there and I'm sure they'd be happy to provide a demo and let you have a play.

Definitely - just drop me an email with when you're free, and you're more than welcome to pop in (we're mid way through a complete renovation at the moment, so depending when it is we may end up setting up consoles in the canteen or something!)

[gibbothegreat]

As it happens our Eos makes quite a significant noise - not terribly loud, but very penetrating and annoying once you've become aware of it.

 

Is it one of the older ones? The newer processor trays do seem quieter, comparing an original Ion I used to use a lot with a new one elsewhere.

I've certainly never had an issue with our Element, I'd guess another factor is an Eos is much more likely to be working harder than an Element.

 

2011 I think (predates my arrival here.)The noise is constant, I'm guessing the fan isn't controlled by thermostat or proportional to workload.

[Stuart91]

2011 I think (predates my arrival here.)The noise is constant, I'm guessing the fan isn't controlled by thermostat or proportional to workload.

 

It might be worth a call to ETC - I'd be surprised if this was normal operation. Perhaps the fan bearings are shot? If it's a genuine irritation it could be worth seeing if a replacement could be supplied.