Which Lighting Desk

[BenEdwards]

Looks like the Sirius 24 we have been trying to get working is beyond repair. Also we really want to be able to control LEDS and a few movers. As ours is a volunteer run venue we want something easy to use (i.e. lots of faders). The Zero88 Jester 48 ML seems like a good option but not sure how easy it is to control LEDS/movers?

 

Did like the look of the ETC element but we need something relatively quiet as the audience is around a meter from the desk. Looking at the tutorials the fan seems quite loud.

 

Something used may be an option but not something so old it is difficult to get something reliable.

 

Suggestions?

 

Ben

[timsabre]

Did like the look of the ETC element but we need something relatively quiet as the audience is around a meter from the desk. Looking at the tutorials the fan seems quite loud.

 

I've never noticed fan noise from an Element or any other ETC desk for that matter? I really wouldn't factor that into your decision.

[alistermorton]

Is the element really that loud (I'd be quite surprised), or is it air con noise on the videos? The demo video doesn't appear to have a lot of fan noise.

 

Anyone got an element can comment?

[kgallen]

Budget?

 

>£3k ETC

<£3k Zero88 FLX <--- I think this will give you decent bang per buck with your scale of setting with plenty of headroom for expansion in your LEDs which is the way things are going these days. No fan, footprint like a Jester, 24 faders default to 24 generics, theatre cue stack, command line syntax or use the faders for intensity if you really want to.

<£2k Zero88 Jester ML (48ML I'd look to FLX for not much more)

<£1k Used Zero88 FatFrog/LeapFrog or a "lower tier manufacturer/Thomann range"

<??? PC with MagicQ

 

This thread will be at least 10 posts long within the next half hour!

[gnomatron]

yeh, I'd second the post above ^^^^ although you can probably get a used Jester ML for not much over 1k - I got a new one for about 1500 not that long ago.

[alistermorton]

I just watched one of the videos and the keyboard was the only noise I could hear.

 

Our Ion makes a little fan noise but so little it's not so you'd notice.

[J Pearce]

If you can afford the Element you won't regret it over the other options. It's a baby version of a proper desk, so you're working with proper software on good quality hardware.

 

Fan noise won't be an issue, the go button is louder, and your audience and operator are louder still!

[gibbothegreat]

As it happens our Eos makes quite a significant noise - not terribly loud, but very penetrating and annoying once you've become aware of it.

 

Re the choice of desk, the price will make it attractive, and 24 faders looks good, but my experience leads me to say - avoid the Strand 250MLlike your life depended on it: their support for my mistake desk has been worse than it was in the days of their first demise, not just poor but utterly untrustworthy too, and the desk is a masterpiece of unfulflled promise...

 

If you want lots of faders, maybe have a look at the Zero88 FLX if your budget will stretch a little further - fine desk, Zero 88's support and development is as good as anyone's, and fader wings are relatively cheap if the onboard 24 faders proves to be tight

[Kriivari]

Even though I'm already in love with my new MagicQ PC + Mini Wing setup for small scale amateur theatre, I wouldn't really recommend it for this use case. Yes, it is cheap but you won't get that many faders to run lights manually. Of course, you could set up various visual looks into faders and have "inexperiences" users use those (I taught a director to run the lights and sound for one show through MagicQ in about five minutes).

[BenEdwards]

I think budget wise we are looking at Jester ML/Leapfrog/FatFrog but its early days and our consensus decision making and recent spend on a refit will slow things down.

 

The leapfrog looks better than the ML as it seems to have a bunch of submasters(not sure if this is the term but is seems you can program a bunch of faders to a lighting state).

 

Is the leapfrog a moderner desk that the fatfrog (I've heard bad things about the fat frog).

 

How do the three desks relate to each other in terms of onboard software.

 

Ben

[kgallen]

The leapfrog looks better than the ML as it seems to have a bunch of submasters(not sure if this is the term but is seems you can program a bunch of faders to a lighting state).

Submasters is the correct term and they do behave like you say. LeapFrog here is a generation before the Jesters, but is a range "above" the Jesters in the effective product line-up. Jester replaced the Alcora and Elara range, although it did build on those platforms significantly.

 

Is the leapfrog a moderner desk that the fatfrog

FatFrog came along around 2000-2001 with a refresh around 2003. There was a range - Frog, FatFrog, LeapFrog, BullFrog, MamboFrog with increasing size/capability and fixture support. The MamboFrog was more of a busking desk, the others are "theatre stack" style.

 

Confusingly there was a later LeapFrog range, the LeapFrog 48 and 96.

 

(I've heard bad things about the fat frog).

What, in the sense that 16 years on they are a rock solid platform with decent capabilities for such a generation of desk, got supported with 10 major revisions of software for nigh on 10 years, and if you are/were an amateur group of medium size sometime in that era (and even today) you were truly honoured to be able to afford and have such a piece of kit in your group?

 

If you are a pro in the industry then they don't go down too well (many Zero88 products don't) - but invariably are not being compared like-for-like with a desk of similar age and price range. Of course there are better lighting desks, but there are "better" cars than my 2009 C-MAX... as they said on Bagpuss, "But Emily loved him...".

 

How do the three desks relate to each other in terms of onboard software.

FatFrog and Frog-range LeapFrog are non-syntax desks, supporting 12 or 24 non-generic fixtures and 48 or 96 generic channels respectively. LeapFrog 48/96 are the newer range using the "ZerOS" software. All are discontinued product lines.

 

I agree with you that FatFrog is going to be a little under-spec'd for you since LEDs are now common place and in simple terms you'll be limited to 12. LeapFrogs of either vintage will probably be hard to come by second hand and are probably not cheap when they do. Thousands of FatFrogs were sold and they regularly come up on eBay these days as people upgrade (to FLX, Solution or even an ETC desk).

 

Hope that helps http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

 

Kevin

 

Not Zero88, just a user...

[lonemorf]

Just curious, I don't often see people suggesting the MA onPC offering with command wing in threads like this, but Magic Q comes up a lot. Sorry for the little hijack, but I'm interested as to why, if anyone would care to share an opinion on it.

[Kriivari]

Just curious, I don't often see people suggesting the MA onPC offering with command wing in threads like this, but Magic Q comes up a lot. Sorry for the little hijack, but I'm interested as to why, if anyone would care to share an opinion on it.

 

My guess would be the price.You can get a real MagicQ console for the price of the MA onPC command wing... ChamSys has more options available in the sub-3000€ price range.

 

And if you're not already familiar with MA logic, MagicQ is just as easy to learn.

 

These guesses from somebody who has just spent some time looking at various PC-based control options.

[Judge]

MA onPC is a lot more expensive, and far harder to get to grips with. It is probably the most complex LX control there is so not recommended in this type of situation. Plus it only has 6 playback faders. So its great if you know what you are doing and have a highly structured show.

[gnomatron]

MA onpc is great but a poor choice for beginners; I love it (I own one!) but it's a steep learning curve, it's overly complex to do basic things unless you have an experienced programmer set it up. Also has very few physical faders, and a scary amount of buttons for inexperienced users. Magic Q comes up a lot because it's a popular console and their PC based solutions are very cheap compared to their competitors. Personally I don't like the software but the hardware is very good especially for the price.

 

I'd also say for a situation with inexperienced users /don't/ go for any PC based solution; the PC adds on loads of things to go wrong and for users to fiddle with and otherwise break.

 

Re. the fat frog - I'd stay away from any desk that's old enough that it has a floppy drive. The fat frog was a great desk for the money but the fact is it's over a decade old now and it's getting difficult to get the disks, and they're pretty unreliable storage media.