Yorkie Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Our church bought a Denon DN-312X 1U mixer (http://www.denonpro.com/products/view/dn-312x) to simplify an installation in a multipurpose hall. The system is used for any combination of the following: background music/one or two mic speeches/keyboard for choir rehearsal/loud music playback from ipod to accompany sports etc. It's not used for bands- we bring in a more suitable system then with somebody that knows how to mix. The interface is ideal for untrained users- 2 XLR inputs and 2 stereo inputs are presented on a 1U panel below the mixer; they simply switch the system on then adjust the rotary control above the socket they just plugged into. The problem is the difference in level between the two. The mic inputs (usually phantom powered Shure MX418 gooseneck condensers) are many times louder than the stereo inputs (typically fed from an ipod/phone/laptop). Is there an easy solution to this without affecting sound quality ? Pads/preamps? Preferably something small to go in the back of the 2U rack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Before looking for techical solutions, are you still able to set gains appropriately, even if the gain settings are very low for the mics and very high for the line inputs? i.e., do the LEDs for each channel show reasonable activity. (Also, check that the iPod/laptop is set to full volume) If so, then the mixer is doing its job, i.e., using gain control to adjust for varying input levels. You don't want to start looking at pads/pre-amps unless you can't achieve the gain structure you require. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Thanks Alec; there is only one control per channel. If you set the volume on the phone at 100%, then the stereo channel at 100% and the master at 100% the level of the music is fine; indeed we have set the limiter (after the mixer) and amps to make this right. If you then set the mic channel at 100% and the master at 100%, the mic is way too loud- the mic needs only to be at 30% or so. If an event uses a mic to start with, they tend to turn up the mic channel and reduce the master level. When music is then played with the stereo input at 100%, the master level is too quiet, but turning it up makes the mic too loud. Non-technical users can't get their heads round this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Five resistors in an H bridge will give you attenuation in a "hide in connector" size lump of heatshrink sleeve for each mic channel. Simpler may be an indicator mark on the potentiometer knobs -giving a "start here" point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 So, you’ve got adequate gain on the line inputs, but the mic inputs are a touch on the hot side, and you want to make the “normal” settings such that the XLR and line input controls are at similar positions in normal use. Sounds like you need a pad on the XLR inputs. As Jivemaster suggests, it’s just a handful of resistors and a few minutes with a soldering iron; alternatively you can buy one built into an XLR adaptor - put this hidden behind the panel. CPC etc sell them in 10dB, 15dB and 20dB variants for around £4 each. http://cpc.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15002&langId=69&storeId=10180&categoryName=All%20Categories&selectedCategoryId=&gs=true&st=xlr%20attenuator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 If an event uses a mic to start with, they tend to turn up the mic channel and reduce the master level. When music is then played with the stereo input at 100%, the master level is too quiet, but turning it up makes the mic too loud. Non-technical users can't get their heads round this...So, everything is working correctly. It's your users that can't cope! Like JiveMaster said, markings on the amp might help. Failing that, a pad is a workaround that should give the outcome you'd like. As long as you don't need from time to time to use lower output mics, as you'd have limited the amount of gain available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Get paint pens that will let you mark green and red sectors on the potentiometer dials. Put the green where you want it. Alternatively put a white pointer on the dial at a good starting point for user mixing. Hide a M-F adaptor with divider inside the rack wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 Thanks all, will build some pads from resistors I think on the back of the panel mount sockets mounted below the mixer. Is this site accurate http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/ , including the phantom advice? Will probably pad a couple of the inputs for condensers and leave the others for dynamics if we need them. Edit... I agree the problem is the users, there could be a dozen different groups using this system every week, if we can make it Mother's Union proof (ladies of average age ~78) then that's ideal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I used to build pads from resistors. Now I just buy the CPC ones..... the advantage of doing it that way is that if you really need to bypass them from inside the rack, it’s easy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just a thought but have you tried experimenting with the mic line level switches on the back to see if that produces a solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just a thought but have you tried experimenting with the mic line level switches on the back to see if that produces a solution? I think we ruled that out on the basis that we normally need phantom to mics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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