LS9 Stagebox dropping out

[soakes94]

Bit of a random one here and want to make sure this wont happen again. We had a touring show in this weekend and they had a LS9-16 with a digital stagebox. However the stagebox kept dropping out. Sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. It was connected with a 75M Cat5e snake with no joins in it or patching.

 

In the end I used another cat5 which had to be patched so had joins but it worked perfectly. I've tested the "faulty" Cat5E cable but its fine as far as I can see. The show is now away so I cant investigate much more but I'm just wondering if 75M is a bit on the long side for the LS9 stagebox or is it possibly a weird fault in our cable?

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[nickb12345]

Is it a screened cat5e cable?

[Shez]

Can you spot the cables you used in this list? Maximum recommended lengths vary from 67m to 125m - all CAT really isn't made equal.

[soakes94]

Cable used was https://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_cat5e_cable_75m.htm

 

 

 

 

Cant see it in the list and I have a feeling that it wont be up there with the Belden stuff!

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

S

 

 

 

[DrV]

A potential "weird fault" would be that the wrong pairs were twisted together. The cable will look fine on a continuity tester but do all sorts of horrible things to a signal

Dave

E2A There are at least two standards for RJ45 connectors.

[stagemanagement]

Cable used was https://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_cat5e_cable_75m.htm

 

 

 

 

Cant see it in the list and I have a feeling that it wont be up there with the Belden stuff!

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

S

 

I used a Pro Snake Cat5 75m on a drum from Thomann with an M7CL and 3-way SB168 rack for years without any hints of trouble.

Has the cable been loose and coiled in bags and cases while touring or was it drum mounted?

[soakes94]

The cable is permanently installed in the building so I doubt the inside cores have been damaged unless it happened when it was installed. Ive used a cheap Thomann 75M cat5 with a Soundcraft SI and the stage box and it was also fine. Wondering if its just a little bit to long for the LS9 and stage box? The cable is also fine with the Soundcraft SI stage box which makes me thing its the LS9.

 

Cheers

Stephen

[mackerr]

The cable is permanently installed in the building so I doubt the inside cores have been damaged unless it happened when it was installed. Ive used a cheap Thomann 75M cat5 with a Soundcraft SI and the stage box and it was also fine. Wondering if its just a little bit to long for the LS9 and stage box? The cable is also fine with the Soundcraft SI stage box which makes me thing its the LS9.

 

Since the wire is installed in the wall, how do you know how long it is? Are the LS9 and the Soundcraft spec'd to the have the same maximum usable cable length? Since it doesn't have a native digital snake system, what digital format was the LS9 using? Does the installed cable require patch cable extensions on the ends to make the connection to the desk and stagebox?

 

Mac

[chelgrian]

The cable is permanently installed in the building so I doubt the inside cores have been damaged unless it happened when it was installed. Ive used a cheap Thomann 75M cat5 with a Soundcraft SI and the stage box and it was also fine. Wondering if its just a little bit to long for the LS9 and stage box? The cable is also fine with the Soundcraft SI stage box which makes me thing its the LS9.

 

Are you using an Ethersound with the LS9 and MADI over CAT5 with the SI? Ethersound is based on standard 802.3 physical layer where as Soundcraft's MADI over CAT5 is entirely different and uses a different physical interface to the wire.

 

If so it's likely that your cable has a fault such that the Ethersound card for the LS9 doesn't like it. However proving that would require a CAT5 certification tool which costs thousands to buy or hundreds to rent and if it fails all it is going to tell you is that you need to rerun the cable.

[gibbothegreat]

Since the wire is installed in the wall, how do you know how long it is? Are the LS9 and the Soundcraft spec'd to the have the same maximum usable cable length? Since it doesn't have a native digital snake system, what digital format was the LS9 using? Does the installed cable require patch cable extensions on the ends to make the connection to the desk and stagebox?

 

Mac

 

We bought & installed it, and it was done so that would be long enough specifically to avoid having patch cables at each end. Pretty sure the LS9 will have been on Ethersound, whereas the Soundcraft is typically MADI

[mackerr]

We bought & installed it, and it was done so that would be long enough specifically to avoid having patch cables at each end. Pretty sure the LS9 will have been on Ethersound, whereas the Soundcraft is typically MADI

 

I would guess that the installed cable does not meet the CAT5 spec. Either etherSound or Dante will need cable that meets at least the CAT5 spec, where MADI over twisted pair may not. Was the cable tested for anything besides continuity after it was installed? A network installer should have the right tools to test the cable run so you could determine if that is the cause of the failure. A full certification test requires very expensive tools, but a qualification test can be done with a much less expensive meter. I bought mine on Amazon for under $300US.CABLE VERIFIER This meter will tell you the actual cable length, and the network speed it will support, as well as display a cable map to verify the wiring.

 

Mac

[soakes94]

The cable hasn't been verified only checked for continuity. So it could be that the cable just isn't up to the right spec to support Ethersound.

 

Thanks for all the replies and help, if I ever get enough money for a tester I will report back!

 

Cheers

 

Stephen

 

 

 

[MarkBarl]

Bit of a random one here and want to make sure this wont happen again. We had a touring show in this weekend and they had a LS9-16 with a digital stagebox. However the stagebox kept dropping out. Sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. It was connected with a 75M Cat5e snake with no joins in it or patching.

 

In the end I used another cat5 which had to be patched so had joins but it worked perfectly. I've tested the "faulty" Cat5E cable but its fine as far as I can see. The show is now away so I cant investigate much more but I'm just wondering if 75M is a bit on the long side for the LS9 stagebox or is it possibly a weird fault in our cable?

I've seen tests with 120m of Cat5e running 64 channels of Ethersound with no problem.

Just to be clear, if the 75m cable was on a reel were there any other patch leads in the line that were actually long leads?

Assuming not, it would suggest that there may be some damage somewhere in the 75m cable that is compromising the integrity. It wouldn't necessarily show up on a continuity test, but would perhaps show with more robust tests that looked at the data carrying properties (bandwidth, loss etc). However, because the testers for this are more expensive that a new reel, I would suggest purchasing a new one.

[bruce]

Testers are of course expensive - but they are standard kit for any reputable data cable installation company. I don't know what size of venue the OP is talking about, but if it's one where cabling works is done regularly, I'd be buying the contractor a coffee....

[S&L]

I don't have enough hands on time with LS9 networks to have first hand definitive knowledge BUT reading the ethersound spec it's supposed to be cat5e shielded twisted pair, 100m maximum. the document goes on to say most cables are reliable up to 80m.

It doesn't specify what the end connection should be but there is a difference between the thomann cable and a standard neutrik ethercon. the ethercons carry the shield onto the back of the RJ45 connection - the thomann cable doesn't. so far as I can tell the ethersound network does not use the sheild as a ground so maybe it doesn't matter but I thought I would mention it.