MadeNew Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Good day, I'm about to begin the construction of a small box set for a small studio production of '12 Angry Men.' (I've got about £500-600 to play with for most of the set) Essentially it'll require the 3 interior walls and a small alcove into the rear wall for a washroom, and one usable door. I've had a couple of thoughts about it's construction, but am open to any advice, especially when it comes to supporting the build. I'm looking at making the set approx. 2.4 m high (the size of generic sheet wood) and the longest wall 5-6 meters and the smaller walls 3.5 meters. Key questions would be; I'm assuming I'll make this out of multiple flats/panels (it needs to come down and go back up during the run), is this the best idea? How would you keep the panels flush? (Bolting through timber frames?) And how would you keep these all supported/up right? (I'm typically a user of A-frames and stage weights - but if these could cause the flats to not sit so flush if they're fractionally out?). And how to join multiple flats at right angles? (I've use drop pins/brackets in the past on smaller set pieces?) Apologies for all the questions, but you guys have been awesome at helping in the past. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave m Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 what's wrong with traditional flats? what are A frames? French braces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 ...and fyi "flat" sheets of wood are NEVER flat which you will discover when you stand a load of them up on one edge and butt them up against eachother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadeNew Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yes French braces. Apologies, always had people around me call them A-frames and it's stuck. I'm intending to use flats, but have always used these individually and not had a lot of experience of joining them to construct larger sets. My experiences are small scale and usually from a more lighting/sound background - hence my lack of knowledge/standard terms. I appreciate there are people with a wealth of knowledge on such things (and may find this to be a stupid set of questions), hence my asking for some beginners advise and/or shared links or similar for guidance. Thanks for your replies though. Learnt a new thing or two already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave m Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Joining flats together is normally done with sash in a stitched cleat type arrangement. Kind of like speed lacing. You can just join them with bits of 2x1 screwed along the top and bottom - maybe the middle as wellThe hardest part with side to side flats is hiding the join. Sometimes easier to make a return so you have a right angle/alcove instead. Or just stick a coat stand in front Using several returns also stops it wobbling so much when a door opens. Wobbly sets are ok with some plays but 12 angry men, not so muchYou can also just clamp them together with G clamps or the modern squeeze type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 As a bunch of amateurs, we bolt our flats together. 10mm bolts. Once the bolts are in the structure becomes really quite stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkicallaghan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 we used to put our flats together with hinges which when once braced always worked, but the old lacing method is always good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadeNew Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Some great replies, thanks! Also, for painting/scenic flats, any thoughts on timber frames with scenic fabric vs calico/muslin covered ply/hardboard flats vs hardboard/ply that you just paint onto? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave m Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 A fabric covered flat (canvas) is remarkably tight if sized properly first.Adding some pva and water to emulsion helps get the paint to tighten the face and stay flexible.One advantage of a flat is that they are pretty light.Once you start skinning a frame with sheet wood they get heavy very quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 What do you plant to do with them afterwards? For me this is always the key thing in my head. If storage isn't that much of an issue then for speed, rigidity and ease of painting I use 9mm MDF with some glued on 25x50 stiffening timber, then pin hinges to fasten them together. Angles keep it upright and rigid. It's heavy and solid. If storage is a problem and I intend moving them to different venues, then plain old fashioned flats do the same thing. Again, you can throw a bit of sash over a cleat, or again, pin hinges, with french braces, again, pin-hinged on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Joining flats together is normally done with sash in a stitched cleat type arrangement. Kind of like speed lacing. You can just join them with bits of 2x1 screwed along the top and bottom - maybe the middle as wellThe hardest part with side to side flats is hiding the join. Sometimes easier to make a return so you have a right angle/alcove instead. Or just stick a coat stand in front Using several returns also stops it wobbling so much when a door opens. Wobbly sets are ok with some plays but 12 angry men, not so muchYou can also just clamp them together with G clamps or the modern squeeze type Back in the day I was taught the trick of using old fashioned hard loo paper well pasted down the joins. It tightens like a drum when dry and is so thin it doesn't show when painted. With flats the trick is to take real care when making the frames. Like you I'd go for canvas if only because the heady small of the size takes me back to my youth! Even an eight foot flat made entirely of timber is a heavy and unwieldy thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadeNew Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Storage is possible. Actually it'd be quite useful to be able to reuse them easily - repainting or whatever as required. I'm thinking using some sheet wood and timber for stiffening is a good route to go. With pin hinges and/or 10mm bolts, there will be plenty of angles in this first design. Would it be an issue to drop the sheet wood down to 3mm hardboard (cheapest and nice surface for painting?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitlane Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Storage is possible. Actually it'd be quite useful to be able to reuse them easily - repainting or whatever as required. I'm thinking using some sheet wood and timber for stiffening is a good route to go. With pin hinges and/or 10mm bolts, there will be plenty of angles in this first design. Would it be an issue to drop the sheet wood down to 3mm hardboard (cheapest and nice surface for painting?) I've not tried 3mm hardboard for flats but my instinct tells me that you will struggle to keep it flat. I suspect you will end up with a gently undulating surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 We use 11' (IIRC) canvas on timber flats in various widths, joined with plates, brackets and hinges by thumbscrews into metal inserts, which can also be used to attach braces. Paper tape to cover the joins before painting. A box set can be up and stable in a couple of hours, and we can fit a selection of door frames into Inverted U shaped flats.There are coat racks to hang on the back of the flats for quick costume changes in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Some of these specifications need checking with the venue, ALL venues have rules about scenery and fire retardency/resistance nothing is fireproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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