cctv via usb to monitor stage from FOH engineer position

[S&L]

to start - what I know about video is almost nil. I have a small production company concentrating on sound and my specific skill is as a front of house sound engineer. everything from 1,000 cap theatres down to small bars.

so far so good.

but in the last 3 months I have had as many problem shows in 300 cap clubs, reasonable pay and two of them with touring tribute pop/rock bands.

the problem is that I need to be sat down to mix - my back is shot and I'm far too old to be spending 5 minutes on my feat unsupported much less 90. all this is fine for the majority of my work - in most theatres the mix positions are reasonable and I get a reasonable view of the stage to see what the musicians are up to. working with name 60s acts even in functions there aren't that many people obscuring my vision. the audience mostly remains seated itself.

I should also explain that for the shows concerned (300 cap clubs), I'm also usually mixing monitors from front of house.

stage is usually something of the order of 10ft deep by 16 ft wide and around 20m/60ft away from my position.

this weekend's show was typical of the issue I'm having. sat on the level and once crowds pack in they decide to stand in front of me and I can no longer see much of what is going on. I can still hear reasonably well.

But I can't see musician's trading notes, or signals to ask for more or less in monitors, or which guitar is playing the melody or lead - or what else they may be up to.

bands I know well aren't a problem, and often cue sheets and set notes takes care of the problem but 3 shows in 3 months it has been enough of a pain to wonder about solutions.

 

first thing I thought of was to bring a stage platform in for myself but it's hard work, bulky for these small shows and time consuming.

then I was sat mixing last night and I thought what I really need is a periscope - submarine style.

it occured to me I can have a flexible 21st century periscope by putting a usb cctv camera on the top of a lighting stand at FOH and connecting to a laptop to relay pictures.

but I have no clue how to spec and go shopping for something like this or even if it's really a viable solution.

cat5 would do just as well so long as it's VERY simple to set up directly to a laptop - an android tablet would do as well (no fruitpads - no fruit cult here).

so I need:

a camera that's easy to hook up with simple software.

a way to zoom to stage size via the laptop/tablet.

a camera that will show enough detail to pick out hand movements 20m away.

a camera that will do this in low light conditions - colour but not a deal breaker

clarity preferred but it doesn't need to be recording quality

a little lag is ok - I could live with a couple of seconds.

obviously I don't want to spend a fortune on something which may only come out of the box 6 times a year - but it's pointless me setting a budget because I don't know what's reasonable to get this sort of spec.

anyone care to point me in the right direction, or pass along other constructive comments and advice?

[timsabre]

You will need to spend quite a bit to get a camera which will cope with stage lighting and give you a picture that is anything other than a few washed out white blobs on a black screen (apart from the inevitable delay on the picture).

I would steer clear of USB/webcam type cameras and laptops and look at domestic video cameras with HDMI out, run to a PC monitor.

 

I rather think that you are likely to spend a lot of time at each gig messing with such a system to get satisfactory results. I'd be looking at a low tech solution like a pop-up riser and/or a tall bar stool or something.

[Jivemaster]

Presuming that you can actually stand, the answers include getting a riser for the desk til it's at elbow level (according to how tall you are!). When I couldn't bend over a mixer for back pain this is what I did -a box under the mixer.

 

CCTV wise, think about a camera at your position but 9 feet from the floor, you are going to need a clever lens though to be able to fill the frame with useful image when at assorted distances from whatever stage width. IMO use composite analogue, you will hate latency.

[Dave m]

proper CRT monitors are cheap on eBay and have no latency.

as are cheap domestic cameras with composite out. Or CCTV cameras.

detail will be an issue if you want to see single gestures yet retain a wide stage view.

 

I'd be tempted to try a cheap wide angle cctv camera on the stage edge shooting along the front v a tall stand at the mix position,.

Then run the signal along cat 5 cable and some baluns along with the multicore. if there is a spare way on the multicore it might be possible to run the camera long that but you'd need to try it.

[S&L]

thanks guys. it looks like I'm going to need to sit and think a bit more.

It's not leaning over as such (to answer one of the comments)...it's a minor disability that makes my back too painful to stand at all for more than 3 or 4 minutes - upright or bent over.

the low tech and expensive solution would be a padded high chair that folds down and a disassemble high table for the console.

It may be that a crt monitor, camera and cable may be just as expensive, and wouldn't solve the adjustment and focus aspect - though to be fair all 3 of the shows I mentioned, I would have had time to reposition a stage-side camera.

thanks again. time to put my thinking cap on again.

[ninjadingle]

Or go really lo-tech and make yourself a periscope type affair with 2 mirrors and a few pieces of wood? Works for the military when they need to stay led down but get a higher vantage point....

 

Also has the advantage of being zero latency and being able to deal with all different lighting states! :-)

[Dave m]

a CRT or TFT monitor could be £50 to 100 or so, if latency isn't an issue then TFT is lighter.

 

another £50 for cable and £50 for a camera?

 

it depends on how slight the hand signals are cue wise. Most CCTV cameras are pretty poor at fine detail.

[Stuart91]

After an episode of really bad back pain at the end of last summer, I invested in a proper ergonomic office chair. As these things go, it's not particularly expensive - and arguably a lot cheaper than paying someone to cover a busy weekend's worth of gigs if my back flared up again.

 

I'd definitely recommend looking into a proper stool / task chair. Get measured up so you have something that's a good fit for you, yet gets you high enough. There should be something available off the shelf that gets you up to head height of a standing crowd.

 

The ergonomics of doing a typical live audio gig are terrible. A friend of mine let a physiotherapy student study some his work as part of a uni assessment. She was horrified by things that we consider run of the mill. One of her recommendations was to get a barstool to mix on rather than hunch over the mixer like he was doing. Alas on the first gig with it he over-reached for a control during soundcheck and tumbled onto the floor... :** laughs out loud **: