Trunker Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Hi all. Was thinking about LED lighting. It's finally getting to a stage that it can (is) taking over from generic (Tungsten) lamps. So what will happen to all the lanterns when there are no more tungsten lamps to be bought? Just thinking, what if there was a conversion unit to put a dimmable LED in standard Fresnels? Now, before I'm shot down, I'm just thinking along the lines of less landfill, less waste and recycling lanterns. Many schools would not be able to afford new LED Fresnels in their theatre spaces, but maybe a £40-£45 dimmable led cartridge replacement would be a viable option over a period of 4-5 years whole tungsten is phased out? (If it will be phased out). Any thoughts on this? Or has it been brought up before, or even done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlorenz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'v also thought about this but there is nothing around... there was a local company concept but they broke http://www.archiexpo.com/prod/evolight/led-projectors-stage-lighting-125351-1280021.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Hi all. Was thinking about LED lighting. It's finally getting to a stage that it can (is) taking over from generic (Tungsten) lamps. So what will happen to all the lanterns when there are no more tungsten lamps to be bought? Just thinking, what if there was a conversion unit to put a dimmable LED in standard Fresnels? Now, before I'm shot down, I'm just thinking along the lines of less landfill, less waste and recycling lanterns. Many schools would not be able to afford new LED Fresnels in their theatre spaces, but maybe a £40-£45 dimmable led cartridge replacement would be a viable option over a period of 4-5 years whole tungsten is phased out? (If it will be phased out). Any thoughts on this? Or has it been brought up before, or even done? Was discussed here a few weeks ago, but I can't find the thread now.The main problem is that the optics will not work the same, and it will be difficult to keep the LED cool in a housing which is not designed for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown96 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=51365&st=45 http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=62224 Think these might be the threads that Tim was thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I wouldn't worry about the lamps not being available - if you can still find them for lights built in the 1950's the ones made in the 80's are safe for a while yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyandi Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 You mean something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I wouldn't worry about the lamps not being available - if you can still find them for lights built in the 1950's the ones made in the 80's are safe for a while yet. Unless governments decree that they must be phased out, come whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 You mean something like this. Hmmm, over £1k each. You can buy an awful lot of spare lamps to put on a shelf for that sort of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevep Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 At the Plasa Focus event in Glasgow last week, White Light were demonstrating a LED lamp housing which you can fit a source 4 lens unit to. Had a quick look at their website but couldn't see anything obvious though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 At the Plasa Focus event in Glasgow last week, White Light were demonstrating a LED lamp housing which you can fit a source 4 lens unit to. Had a quick look at their website but couldn't see anything obvious though Are you sure it wasn't just ETC's official source 4 LED? That is an interchangeable LED lamp housing. Costs a lot more than £1000 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I rather doubt that an LED retrofit lamp will ever be viable for theatre lanterns. To replace say a 1,000 watt halogen lamp would require very roughly 150 watts of LED. Removing the heat from such a large LED would be a problem in a fixture intended for halogen lamps. Purpose made LED lanterns can be designed with large heatsinks and cooling fans and easily dissipate the heat. In the much longer term I suspect that incandescent lamps will be banned, or that production will cease. I expect that the more popular incandescent lamps will be available for decades yet. Some obscure types may go out of production much sooner though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 In a tungsten lamp the heat is extracted easily because it's seriously hot (250C + inside there) For a LED to work it will have to stay below about 70C so it needs a LOT more airflow and fins to get the little bit of heat out, often meaning a big noisy fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunker Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thanks for all your replies. I'm guessing then that maybe, T18, T26, T11 and T29 may stay around for a while longer, judging from some posts? I can see the issue with LED in standard lanterns with the heat problems. Starting to move over to LED, but would hate to throw my Quartet F lanterns out just yet........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I suspect that eventually that incandescent lamps will go the way of gas lights, carbon arcs, and oil lamps, all of which are still used today, but they are not exactly mainstream light sources for the everyday lighting of homes or workplaces. This will not happen overnight and I expect that the common types of theatre lamp will be available for many years yet for replacement purposes. LEDs are improving rapidly and may soon become the norm for new installs as distinct from replacement lamps in existing equipment. Leds use substantially less power than halogen and this will become more important. Not only are running costs much reduced, but often overlooked is the CAPITAL cost of providing this power. A large conventional lighting rig can easily be 1,000KW or more, providing this much power involves a great deal of capital cost on intake rooms, cables and switch gear, and dimmers, and probably a dedicated substation. A lot of very valuable space is thus occupied also. If instead LED equipment was specified, then the capital costs and space taken up would be much reduced. At the other end of the scale, a small stage in say a village hall might need 25KW of conventional lighting. This would require typically several dimmer supplies each perhaps 32 amps single phase, if installed to a good standard by an approved electrician this would likely cost at least £1,000 and a supply upgrade might be needed at significant cost. Use of LED lanterns could reduce the load to a few KW supplied from existing 13 amp outlets with no installation costs whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevep Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 At the Plasa Focus event in Glasgow last week, White Light were demonstrating a LED lamp housing which you can fit a source 4 lens unit to. Had a quick look at their website but couldn't see anything obvious though Are you sure it wasn't just ETC's official source 4 LED? That is an interchangeable LED lamp housing. Costs a lot more than £1000 though. No - wasn't an ETC backend and the staff were very specific that it's sold with or without the lens tube. Did a bit of digging and it looks more like the Altman Pheonix LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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