Musical theatre

[medina]

Question for you musical theatre sound ops- scenario, large opera house on 4 levels, do you prefer a line array or several smaller speakers dotted around and delayed nicely, I listened to a show last night using a line array and found it didn't have that rich big sound you'd expect from a big musical? Is a line array wrong in this application?

[sam.spoons]

My experience of musicals (admittedly limited from both the audience POV and behind the desk) is that the quest for volume before feedback leads to the thin sound you experienced. When I got over this on my first and only (but hopefully not last) theatre sound engineering job, I got the system sounding pretty good. It was a ground stacked conventional system in a venue more often used for bands though. In theory there's no reason why a line array shouldn't sound as full as any other system. BTW most theatres I've been in seem to use a mix of the two approaches you mention with line arrays plus point source centre fills and satellites.

[top-cat]

I don't think that you can declare that line arrays are the wrong tool for the job, simply because one system used on one show by one engineer on one night didn't sound as good as you expected it to.

[GR1]

The problem with using a line array in an old theatre with several levels is that sound hits the balcony and circle fronts, bounces back and screws up the mix. Sometimes you need to disconnect a box to make a workable solution. Also the older theatres are slot shaped with seats facing the actors on stage and the line array is in a different plane so it's not always an ideal solution. As is usual there is not a black and white answer because any system can sound thin if it is implemented badly.

[kerry davies]

Graham is correct and it is horses for courses. To get over the upstairs/downstairs split I once saw Ry Cooder use dV subs inserted at balcony level in an L'Acoustics line array. Also seen a centre cluster amongst all sorts of both good and bad results. I am very aware that we with some knowledge can be guilty of listening with our eyes as well.

 

For my money sound in theatre has more to do with where one sits than just about anything else. I reckon that my local theatre, Brycheiniog, is pretty rare in that the very worst place in the house to listen is the FoH mixing desk.

[top-cat]

One thing to bear in mind about theatre sound is how the auditorium was designed in the first place.

 

Some older auditoriums were designed by acoustic gurus to be able to take a small sound source - that being completely acoustic, or the small system installed back in the day - from the stage, and naturally amplify it throughout the room, using clever design in the walls, ceiling etc; meaning the PA produces some sound and the room adds to it.

 

Newer auditoriums may have been designed with larger sound systems - even line arrays in theatres made in the last 20 years - rigged in specific places, with more dampening in the design of the building, meaning the PA produces more sound and the room fights against it.

 

I have seen and worked in both.

 

Hence is some older auditoriums, the ideal PA is a big pile of something simple and clear, on the stage or near the pit, and let the room do the work for you. In other theatres, you need to install a large line array, possibly even on pre-determined points, and set it to fire across the room.

 

The change in attitude at the design of the theatre stage, does of course have to change your attitude at the touring through the theatre stage. Hence it can be difficult when a single tour with a single PA system embraces several different venues all with different acoustic design properties, you are never going to be able to get them all ideal.

[Bobbsy]

The local 1800 seat receiving house where I've worked sometimes changed from a traditional point source system to a D & B Ti Line Array a couple of years back. The two systems sound very different but both are/were good. However, on both systems, under balcony fills are used to eliminate dead spots.

 

As others have said, it's down to the design and installation and there's no simple "X is better for all theatre work" solution.

 

Bob

[cedd]

Similar to Bobbsy, we work in a local receiving house that doesn't have an installed rig. As such we have a regular setup that we use in there for our shows (large am-dram group, but they can fill the 1500 seat venue for a week). Our rig is point source - normally Meyer UPA. It's the standard rig that the theatre hire in for things like comedians and spoken word stuff. I think if we wanted to push things much harder (maybe a jukebox musical or a rock-based musical) then we'd need to look at line arrays. Whilst the point source setup does the job well for most of our work, if you push it too hard then you can really upset the people sat directly in front of the cabinets. Sadly with point source and the layout of the theatre, your stalls cabinets often end up within a couple of meters of the outer seats of the front row. We'd ideally like them higher but balconies etc. get in the way. With a line array your average distance to all of the seats becomes far larger. As such you're not trying to fill all the stalls with a cabinet a couple of meters away from somebody on the front row's head. We found that we were pushing the front fill louder and louder as it was bolted to the stage edge and therefore at least gave the width of the (very wide!) pit before it reached somebody's head.

 

Most touring shows in there use a line array, though I've also seen a centre cluster work well.

We use the in house cluster/ left right system when we do the West Yorkshire Playhouse and it does a decent job of covering the whole theatre, with a little help from some delays for the furthest seats. The ability to do LCR is particularly nice. It might be a halfway house to look at - decent distance from the nearest seat, the ability to stick your vocals up the middle and pull focus in towards the stage, and you retain stereo image. The Playhouse is a particularly wide theatre, but it may work well for smaller spaces too.

 

 

[volucha]

HI!!

 

If we work with array systems we need to know how the coverage it's working. When we work with array systems the vertical coverage is very narrow ( depend on the frequency) and we will need a lot of speakers in order to have a good vertical coverage. If we are working in a theatre with 4 or 6 different levels we will need a lot of cabinets to have a good vertical coverage. I think this is the key to do a good system design. The horizontal coverage will be constant with the frequency ( more or less) like 90 degrees or maybe 100 so everything will be more easy in this plane.

In my opinion will have a good frequency response with the array systems because the interaction ( comb filter) between cabinets It's really good If you compare with the conventional systems.

 

Vicent.

[volucha]

I hope It will be useful.

 

Line Array. How it works.

http://www.dasaudio.com/en/support/technical-articles/line-arrays-how-they-work/