New desk

[eastlondon]

We are a busy receiving house in london, and are looking to replace our analogue desks with digital in two spaces. \I would like to have the option of using the second desk as a monitor desk in the main theatre space, with the stage boxes splitting feeds between FOH and monitor board. Our initial plan was for a couple of LS9-32s with SB168 stage boxes, however this is looking like old technology compared tol the equipment today, and I don't think we can can stretch to the the new yamaha boards. I really like the look of the midas desks, rightly or wrongly, when showing people around the venue, image is quite important, and they do look more professional than the behringer models, I was also interested in the soundcraft stuff, basically 32 in and at least 6 out for the main space, could do 24 in and 4 out in secondary space.

 

Bearing in mind that these purchases are for at least the next five years, what do people feel about the various digital desks out there at the moment? Is the LS9 a safe choice, or should we go for a newer technology- , behringer or midas or something else? I really would like the option of combining together for bigger performances. But we also need desks that any sound engineer can comfortably use, maybe after we have patched it for them.

 

Anybody got any opinions or prejudices that are going to appear on tech riders in the future?

[Zimsquid]

I use the Soundcraft Vi1 in my venue. It is a very user friendly desk to use for quick turn arounds and a doddle to set up - not sure if you have looked at it that much? 32 in's and 24 out's and is expandable to 64 in's and 48 out's with the CAT5 expansion card and stagebox. The visiting operators that come in have about 10 - 20 hands on instruction and then they can do the rest - hardly every get any calls to the desk - unless they have done something wrong!

The other very easy desk - which I prefer - is the Allan & Heath GLD80. Nice and simple to set up, has 4 XLR in's on the desk with a few others for CD's etc, but the bulk of the inputs come from the stagebox which starts at 24/12 in/out and can have expander units daisy chained to the desk max. I used it for the first time last year and learnt more on it than the venue tech could show me! Again for quick turn arounds - dead easy desk to use.

Hope that helps.

[Simon Lewis]

The LS9-32 is certainly a good desk, but isn't one that I would choose to buy now. Have you not considered the Yamaha QL1 with an appropriate Rio rack?

The Yamaha interface is well known, the Dante protocol appears more popular and increasingly well adopted, and the price isn't too far off the LS9-32 + SB168 package. The QL range has a port to port function and can share a stagebox, plus I believe it can cascade with other QL or CL desks. I have more faith that the Yamaha desk will last you 5 years (and indeed will be supported for over 5 years) than some of the lower cost units in the marketplace...

 

 

 

[antlear]

Hi

 

I would look at the

allen and heath qu32

allen and heath gld80/gld112

Soundcraft si ex3 -http://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft_siex3.htmn and http://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft_simsb32_rj_45.htm

[MarkBarl]

If you are thinking Yamaha, I would also suggest the QL with a Rio rack. The Dante protocol is more flexible network wise than the EtherSound and appears to have a wider appeal with Amp manufacturers and the like. Also the Dante virtual soundcard is a far cheaper way to get 64 channels into a PC/Mac for recording that buying a USB Ethersound interface. If you are going second hand to buy then the LS9 although not universally loved is well known. I would still suggest the Rio rack though and get Dante cards for the LS9 which are cheaper than the ES cards.

NB: I believe that the QL has gain compensation in if wanting to share preamps with a FOH and Mon desk.

[cedd]

I think people are going to get fed up of me saying this soon....

 

Look at the Roland V-mixer range. The M300 would do all you need and much, much more. It's a very nice compact package and the flexibility of the patching system is immense. The M480 is a step up in price but takes your input count to 48 and doubles all your bus/DCA/matrix numbers.

 

They pack a lot of punch that other consoles costing double their price only just offer. Little hidden things that aren't obvious on a spec sheet like freely assignable sidechain sources on compressors. Very powerful scene memory with per-scene recall scope. All sorts!

 

They're also (I think) very straightforward to walk up to and mix on as a first timer.

I love mine (both my M300 and M480).

 

 

 

[carlskeats]

I think people are going to get fed up of me saying this soon....

 

Look at the Roland V-mixer range. The M300 would do all you need and much, much more. It's a very nice compact package and the flexibility of the patching system is immense. The M480 is a step up in price but takes your input count to 48 and doubles all your bus/DCA/matrix numbers.

 

They pack a lot of punch that other consoles costing double their price only just offer. Little hidden things that aren't obvious on a spec sheet like freely assignable sidechain sources on compressors. Very powerful scene memory with per-scene recall scope. All sorts!

 

They're also (I think) very straightforward to walk up to and mix on as a first timer.

I love mine (both my M300 and M480).

 

 

 

 

Only problem with V Mixer is no touch screen. With the competiton all doing some sort of touch screen or mouse ball system Roland are a bit behind in the easy quick navigation.

I engineered at a venue that wanted to have lots of bands with quick turn around an almost no sound check and no stage manager and had to bring in a Yamaha CL so I could be confident of getting the job done quickly.

 

Yamaha QL is a massive improvemnt over the LS9 consoles and if you want a desk that will last you may need to consider spending more than a couple of grand.

 

IM me if you want to organise a demo.

[Electrolytic]

didn't see a budget so digico

[john deans]

If you are at the lower end of the budget then look at the soundcraft expession series. I find them easy to use and for new users to pick up, & quite flexible.

[RichM]

+1 for the Soundcraft Vi1.

[cedd]

Only problem with V Mixer is no touch screen. With the competiton all doing some sort of touch screen or mouse ball system Roland are a bit behind in the easy quick navigation.

I engineered at a venue that wanted to have lots of bands with quick turn around an almost no sound check and no stage manager and had to bring in a Yamaha CL so I could be confident of getting the job done quickly.

 

Got to say, I've never missed having a touch screen, but I guess it's a personal preference. It's a little odd though as I use an iPhone, iPad and even my laptop has a touch screen, yet when it comes to consoles I just don't ever think of trying to use the screen. Even when I've mixed on consoles with one, I'll sooner reach for hard keys or encoders.

There are one or two functions during desk set up that need a bit of scrolling or navigating using keys, but they're few and far between and once it comes to mixing the gig I'm pretty sure that everything I need is available on hardware encoders or buttons.

 

 

 

 

[smalljoshua]

I'll agree with that sentiment cedd... We stock Midas Pro series and don't find the lack of touchscreen to be an issue. It can actually be quite a liberating experience as everything to actually "mix" with is on a good tactile piece of hardware with feedback and grab-ability (where you can rely on muscle memory alone to reach a dial).

 

Again, depending on budget (the OP doesn't think he can stretch to the new Yamahas, CL1 is 8k + stage box). I'd recommend the pro series every day of the week, the Pro1 can be had on a stunning deal (4.6k for surface alone), likewise the Pro2c has dropped in price quite a bit since it came out (surface alone is less than the CL1 surface).

 

As with everything though, take a look at the past years riders, see what was the most requested, most rejected and then narrow it down from there. A point to remember is that if someone asks for a Midas Pro series on a rider, their show file will work on anything from Pro1 to XL8 but not on the (non pro series) M32.

 

Josh

[Stuart91]

Having recently watched a very experienced engineer struggle through his first show on a Pro 2, I'd have them well down my shortlist, if they even made the cut at all. I can see how they work if you are touring a band and have had time to set everything up, but for a busy receiving venue I can see it being a bit of an impediment.

 

It seems that engineers who are used to analogue can take to the Soundcraft Expression series very easily. Whatever you go for, get a surface with plenty faders - the less flips you are having to do, the better.

[GR1]

Soundcraft are easy to pick up. They are designed with a smooth cross over from analogue in mind. You could do a lot worse than pick one. The Midas is great but you do need to know a bit about it before using it and the low fader count can spook some people.

[whisky-zulu]

+1 here for the Soundcraft Performer and Expression series. Very easy desks to pick up and learn, as well as being a fairly simple transition from analogue to digital.