Recording Mobiles/Trucks

[Mr.Si]

Hi there,

 

We're all familiar with the BBC's and Sanctuary Group's Recording trucks which cater for live recording of events, dvd creation, broadcast etc.

 

I am looking do enter this market, but not at the top end - rahter more, the small - medium sized gigs/events because I have heard that there is definitely a market for this service. Plus, there is nothing like hearing the buzz of a live event on recording - it captures the moment.

 

 

My plan is to "kit out" a campervan with my existing recording gear (and other new stuff which I will buy). With the view to pulling up at the relevant venue, tap into the system there (to get the direct mics etc) and add a few mics for ambience, sit outside the venuein my "Recording Campervan" and record the event and then mix it down etc in post.

 

My main thoughts/concerns/questions at the moment are:

 

1: How would one wire the van for electrics? - internally and externally and what source? (I was thinking a 16A ceeform externally would allow me to have a weather proof feed from the venue)

 

2: How would one fix all the equipment inside so that it doesn't all move around etc? and also given that the walls of a campervan are not the thickest things in the world, would I need to ply-line the interior do you think?

 

3: How much of a market do you all think there is for less expensive, yet still fully professional, live recordings?

 

4: My other concern at the moment is the best way to achieve the isolated split so I can plug my recording multicore into the existing systems. But I shall view the existing topic on splitter snakes and also probably email some companies for advice on this matter.

 

Your responses are awaited with baited breath.

 

Simon Barrett

[3guk]

It might help if we had some pictures of the insides of the campervan ?

 

Could you not get some freestanding racks built in to the campervan and attach them to the wall so that they do not tip over. Im not entirely sure about that solution however because campervan walls seem to be stupidlythin.

[MikeR]

It strikes me that one of your biggest problems may turn out to be being able to get your vehicle into close enough proximity to the venue to make your plan feasible. I'm wondering whether the market youre targeting have the budgets to use the venues that would allow you easy access. Just a thought.

[Modge]

I can't let a camper-van related thread past with out mentioning my mates club (he has oldskool VW obsession going on) found here: http://www.splitterz.co.uk/ between them and the links on that site you can easily find out more than any sane man would want to know about camper vans. I'm told.

[Russ]

All the BBC's OB units use digital multicore - not only does that let them sit up to 2km (!) away from the stage, but it also reduces any effect it might have on the signal. I'm not sure how much of an effect two lengths of 50m multicore would have if they're both attached to the same microphone.

 

I bet it's bloody expensive though - I've never used one myself.

[Mr.Si]

It might help if we had some pictures of the insides of the campervan ?

 

Could you not get some freestanding racks built in to the campervan and attach them to the wall so that they do not tip over. Im not entirely sure about that solution however because campervan walls seem to be stupidlythin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't actually have one yet, I'm afraid.

 

I thought I'd do a little/lot of research before I committed to buying anything.

 

I do know someone who converted a caravan into a porta-studio, but I don't have his phone number and he is in Cambridge and I'm West Sussex! But I may have to track him down to see how he did it.

 

I thought a campervan would be better because I don't want to tow, not with my 165,000 mileage car!

 

Sorry I don't have any photos though, as I know with all queries like this, the more info given, the easier it is to help.

 

Oh, Mike, cheers for your thoughts too. I will be planning on getting a multicore of 75 - 100mtrs.

 

I'd be marketing to not only events, but also doing location recording of bands in practice rooms and stuff. I'd most likely park up in the venue's car park (as most place's I've done sound at, are village halls and churches etc)

[Pete McCrea]

Use a CAT5 Multicore. We had one demo'd to us by Marquee Audio. It'll run 64 channels down one length of CAT5, with the boxes allowing this to be combinations of sends and returns in multiples of 16. For recording I guess you'd want all sends.

 

Interms of the splits I guess you want active splits. I think the system demo'd to is had in built splits on the stage box. Buggered if I can remember who it was by....

[paulears]

I tried to do just this, on a reasonable budget and came accross so many snags, my gear is now all cased up and goes in the venues.

 

Heat and Cooling.

 

Air con is hugely expensive and in the even slightly cheaper forms, amazing loud!

 

Condensation issues mean the inside of the vehicle in winter gets hot, humid and very damp - video and dat rotary heads are no-no's. getting ibn and out lets in stacks of cold wet air, and everything suddenly gets very damp.

In the summer - you fry!

 

Access

As has been said, getting parked near the smaller venues is impossible. Even if you contact the police and arrange a permit (takes ages, and every force has a different system - some passing responsibility straight to a council, who then don't kbnow what to do unless you are a skip!!!)

 

Getting cable access means very long multi-cores. I've got two 50m snakes and sometimes had to end-to-end them!

 

Power

 

16A ceeforms make sense- worked fine for me, although trip-outs are common.

 

Oher snags.

 

Video - essential

Comms - even more so, to let you keep in touch with what's going on

Soundproofing - not to much problem when using a proper venue, but at live shows outside too much real sound gets through, meaning you have to monitor at even louder levels.

 

Theft - A camper van will be an easy target -proper alarm and security.

 

I did it in a panel van for a year - every session was problematic - hence the move to the 'go inside with flightcases' approach - much easier, although more gear to shift.

 

 

Mike splitter wise - I've got a couple of passive splits that have worked entirely trouble free.

paul

[Russ]

Use a CAT5 Multicore. We had one demo'd to us by Marquee Audio. It'll run 64 channels down one length of CAT5, with the boxes allowing this to be combinations of sends and returns in multiples of 16. For recording I guess you'd want all sends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ooh, I'd appreciate it if you could remember the name. The only digital multicores I've seen have been the ridiculously expensive but hilarously long-range optical ones. Cat5 sounds like a plan,

[3guk]

How about a transit van ??

 

They are at least a bit more solid and I can see there being anough space in one.

 

You wouldnt have to remove all of the crap out of it eitehr cause they are bare.

 

Since they have more solid pannels you could attach racks to the sides to stop them from tipping.

 

But like everyone else said its going to be very expensive and if you cant get close to the venue is there much point. I hope that does sound defeatist because I love the idea and over the past few hours have put some serious thought into how the whole thing would work.

[Mr.Si]

a transit or box van would be so much more solid in many ways yeah, I just liked the idea of having a sofa at the back of the room so other people could listen in, in what feels more like a "homely" environment.

 

I'd like to use the vehicle "Longways" so putting the 24ch Behringer MX9000 desk and the monitors by the Bulkhead of the vehicle (behind the seats)

 

So I guess a long transit would be better?

 

Si

[paulears]

I have seen a few quite well insulated mobiles in ex refrigerated vans as the insulation fitted works well sound wise.

[Brian]

Vehicle choice - my favourite would be a Merc Sprinter LWB

 

Have a look here, in the Vehicles section - several interior shots.

 

Watch your weights - it's suprising how quickly you can reach your maximum vehicle weight. We used to design to within a few kg, it's that tight - even things like leaving spare cable in your rack wiring can make a difference.

 

Mains wiring should conform to BS 7671. Put in a consumer unit with RCD so each rack is fed from its own MCB. Don't forget that you may need a local earth 'spike'.

Put a 1U mains distribution unit into each rack to drop the power onto multiple IEC leads.

 

Air conditioning - units made by Electrolux for mobile use work fine. Many of the vans in the link above use them.

 

Racks - standard racks waste a lot of space, if you look at the vans above you may notice that they use custom made racks which are made as one assembly with all the racks together. You can gain valuable space like this. Standard racks are around 24" wide, wasting 5" per rack. A custom rack will only have around 3/4" between each front panel - with 3 racks across a van you save 12". Don't fix them to the walls, bolt them to the floor - much stronger.

 

Sound insulation - difficult in a mobile vehicle as the insulation mass comes straight off you carry capacity. Look at putting high density rockwool - not fibreglass insulation - into the wall 'cavities' and cover it with either metal perforated sheet covered in hessian or with ply covered in hessian. It'll never be ideal.

[WolvesAndi]

Every gig I have done with OB vans they have taken a feed of the stage box. The only thing if you are aiming at lower end gigs will they have a stage box ? with a seperate feed for such things

[Simon Lewis]

Simon,

 

Two further things to consider:

 

Although the van doesn't need to be a perfect acoustic environment, it helps to minimise external and internal noise. Think of some of the acoustic approaches needed for recording studios.

 

Whilst the use of wired multicore splits is cheap and cheerful, it can lead to some nasty problems with different earth potentials - especially of your power isn't from the same source as the venue power. Transformer splits afford galvanic isolation as do optical systems - hence their popularity. Unfortunately, these aren't cheap, and neither are the digital converters / multiplexers for using CAT5 cable...

 

However, if you do have to patch into someone elses system, I believe that Bryant Broadcast (http://www.bryantbroadcast.co.uk/) have some Neutrik male to female XLR adaptors with a short cable connected to the adaptor barrel. It allows you to wire these onto your multicore and simply plug them inline with the host PA's mic leads...

 

BTW - Nice to see an AMIOA doing live sound!

 

Simon Lewis <><