Chamsys MQ40 for theatre?

[vinntec]

We are looking at upgrading our lighting desk. Theatre has mixed dimmer and LED lanterns (no movers we don't have the infrastructure or need for them) so the console obviously can easily handle anything we can throw at it for some considerable time in a venue which is tiny and puts on a season of plays each year.

 

One of those which will physically fit our tiny operating position, has more than our target long term capacity and within budget is a Chamsys MQ40 without any wings. It also doesn't have an external monitor connection so everything relies on the desk plus its internal display.

 

Has anyone used a compact Chamsys console stand-alone on a theatrical show, and if so how easy was it? I am not interested in opinions about other desks or PC wings - just how feasible moving to this sort of console would be? My budget can just about scrape the MQ40, no extras.

[csg]

I can't see how it would not work well for you - you still have 10 physical playbacks which can hold theatre style stacks and a numerical input keyboard to enter values if you program in this manner. We have the MQ60 in stock which has the same surface.

 

the internal touchscreen is on the small size, but my chunky fingers don't have any trouble with it and I have no issues reading any data from it either.

[ceecrb1]

I've had my own personal mq60 since late august/septemeber and used it on a decent variety of shows to know now that I am very happy with my purchase.

 

A few things..

If you can wait and save more money get the mq60.. I honestly couldnt imagine mine not having the network connection now... for everything from visualiser work, artnet, ipad remote, 2nd screen, even just navigating to it on a network to get files on and off etc etc...

Mostly for theater work, the idea of having the iphone remote while focusing alone... I'd miss having that to be honest.

You would be happy with the 40.. but if its just down to waiting a little more... you could end up with the 40 and wishing you had the 60. (there is a 60 on chamsys.be foru, right now for sale). Buy once, buy right.

To be honest I made the same mistake... wishing I had the 70 for POE for some network nodes and timecode for tv work.. I've had to manually sync live changes while on air, where I could´ve taken a timecode feed from the ob truck.. yes I got the job done but its not the same.

 

I've hardly had any issues with the touchscreen size... More of an issue really is the viewing angle.. I find I have to either make sure the console is on quite a low surface, I´m standing over it or I need to bend myself over it to get a decent view.. A few jobs I´ve just wedged a flightcase lid under it to angle it up.... I´m guessing for a theatre install, the set guys could make you a nice angled wedge to raise the back up a little.

 

I have used mine in everything from nightclubs, bands, live TV awards ceremonys and recording a sitcom in a studio..

For theatre style work there are a few features that are extremely useful.. eg the PARK feature.. you can set a certain light how it must be at all times and not worry about it.. most useful on back-stage safety... we did it in the sitcom.. 1000 square meter studio with lots of sets and we would be working in one corner...

so while lighting one set, I could "park" a few lights between the door and the set.. so they were always on no matter what.

 

In the other broadcast event I did, I was really happy with it for speed, working with the LD he'd call out positions, intensitys, beam looks, CT etc etc and EVERYTHING was recorded in palettes. This ment the actual "programming" for each cue was just taking what I want from the "palett menu" each time. Really fast, really easy to update and I could guarantee that what the LD asked for ealier is what they get again later.

 

 

Edit:

Also for touchscreen..

I bought These on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hellfire-Trading-3-Blue-Large-Pro-Big-Stylus-for-Nintendo-3DS-LL-DSi-XL-DS-Wii-U-/291000682144?pt=UK_Styluses&hash=item43c0fe06a0

I´m really happy with them, especially at the cost!

 

It needs to be "older style" ones with a thin point rather than the horrible rubber ones that are fatter than your finger tip. But I have one in the flightcase and a spare at home.. makes a massive difference when cold and with gloves on etc.

I think I got both of mine for under 2€ sometimes I think chamsys could give them away with the console....

[vinntec]

Thanks for those initial comments. Let me list our specification for a desk (bearing in mind this a purely theatrical venue):

• Budget max £3,500
• A dedicated theatre lighting desk
• Has to be usable standing up (so back panel is base - supported obviously)
• Maximum dimensions are 765mm wide, 800 mm deep (which is height when standing up)
• Minimum 48 dimmers + 50 fixtures (most of our fixtures are Selecon LED which use 15 channels each = 750 channels)
• Suitable for theatre use
• Can be programmed remotely (or in case of MQ40 offline on a PC and show transferred, so desk does not have to be "flown" from our perch and back every show)
• Existing LDs can be quickly converted without training or workshop (see below)

All these requirements are something which the MQ40 will achieve with ease without taking its jacket off - except possibly the last. However the list of potential desks is very small... The MQ40 is relatively expensive so would be just a desk with no wings.

 

 

We only started using DMX a few years ago when we needed to increase the number of dimmers (which are still there but now via demux) and that paved the way for experimenting with LEDs - so successfully that we have already outgrown the Fat Frog (we have 19 fixtures, the FF supports 12 so we can get away with it for the present). Some shows still don't use any LEDs, others use lots so our expectation is that the use of LED (or some other new technology) will continue to grow. But the sort of productions put on won't change to a significant degree (although our technical facilities continue to be improved). So the channel requirement assumes we might or might not go towards 100% LED or have a mixed rig like now.

 

So an MQ60 would make no sense as it adds additional facilities to an MQ40 which is already way beyond what we can envisage needing 10 years or more ahead.

 

So what is the problem - migrating my lighting designers from fader per dimmer channel - which is how they grew up - to one where those faders are no longer there. I myself grew up on Strand 300/500 so using a keypad and sliders as subs is second nature. However, on day one they expect to be able to walk up to a new console with only a basic checklist of a few pages (prepared by me) and use the desk productively straight away, maybe just with dimmers to start with. A few more pages in phase 2 to use LEDs. The setting up of the desk and defining fixtures and so on will be done by someone else (ie me).

 

 

Playing with MagicQ on a PC (and being careful not to use any PC-only facilities) I can't see how to make things this easy. However it sounds like something like 48 x palettes, one per dimmer, might be one way of doing it? There are probably other "Chamsys" ways of getting us going?

 

 

[themadhippy]

However it sounds like something like 48 x palettes, one per dimmer, might be one way of doing it?

or just hit the dimmer group,then the int button and theres all your faders,ok there on the touch screen,but theres still a "fader " per channel.stupid question,but is an all in 1 touch screen pc with a wing an option,at least that way you get to use the remote facilatys

[paulears]

To be honest, for the shows we're running where it's comedians, dance shows, tribute bands and 60s/70s stuff the extra faders are very handy. The magicQ maxi wing I have did get extended by an extra wing simply to make this easier. Maybe I'm from the same school where access to faders works for me. I know plenty of people are very content with swapping pages, and I guess I should just adapt and do it this way - but I like colour changes on buttons for one hand while adding in the extra stuff on faders - and even though I try to stay on the main faders, I keep spreading. I looked at the MQ40 last year, but it's not much different from what I have. So my suggestion would be the mq40 plus extra wing, but that boosts the price by £1200.

[ceecrb1]

vinntec:

Press the "INT" button on magicpc...

 

You will see that you get "old style" faders but onscreen..

 

with your finger or stylus (even a usb mouse works well) you can vary their level, or use it to select them and use the X wheel to alter its (or multiple selected) levels.

 

 

 

 

With this screen it may be even easier for people who seldom use consoles...

EG.. Record the INT screen to layout 3....

So they turn on the console.. press "lay 3" key and start recording their subs

 

You can also, in the patch, name each channel and add "dot" indicating filter colour..

so lets say you always have ch1, lectern A and ch2 lect b..

Inside the INT window they will be named Lect1 or Lect2 (or whatever you type in) so they would not even need to learn the channels/patch etc.

 

 

HEre is what I found in a google image search for it.

http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/intensitywindow.jpg

[vinntec]

Thanks for that and the helpful image. Getting the "int" display to work was suggested earlier and I am gradually getting my head around the way MagicQ works (at least on a PC). I will be doing the training next month as I happen to be lighting a show using an MQ60 elsewhere shortly - which is why having our own MQ40 came to my mind but the money has to be spent quickly or not at all. It seems like this desk at our venue would be having a bit of a vacation having to drive some dimmers and a few dozen static LEDs on a single cue stack...;)

[paulears]

I think one of the best features is the ability to give almost everything names. You can also set up the output screen grid to show you the lights in a fixed rig in the place they are, so I have mine laid out in a mimic of their real positions. So that screen gets lots of use, showing you where and what colour is actually on. Saves me lots of time.

[vinntec]

I think one of the best features is the ability to give almost everything names. You can also set up the output screen grid to show you the lights in a fixed rig in the place they are, so I have mine laid out in a mimic of their real positions. So that screen gets lots of use, showing you where and what colour is actually on. Saves me lots of time.

Hi Paul - you don't have a showfile you could send me which demonstrates this? OK I see it in the manual now - how did I miss that? I will fire it up on the PC as this is a very useful function which the other desks we are considering don't do... It's a pity an MQ40 doesn't get the visualiser (and I have WYSIWYG but not Perform) - Doh!

[top-cat]

I don't want to open the can of worms again, but it does beg the question as to whether you would be better served by a computer wing.

 

Obviously most similar to a MQ40 would be a maxi wing. But actually the spec works out a bit higher really, being PC based gives you a lot of the benefits that Ceecrb mentions in his post. If you prefer a bigger touch screen, there is also that option - you are only limited by the one you choose! The MQ40 sticks you with a fairly small one. And if you like to work sat down, there is always the option with a PC of an upright screen rather than the flat one built in the desk.

 

Networking and iphone options etc are all served well by the maxi wing. And of course, the Magic-Q features he mentioned are all present, whichever control surface you choose.

 

For install you also have the added benefit that the faders, screen, keyboard, mouse etc can all be laid out in the manner that best suits your control position and application; rather than being stuck to the layout it is built in.

 

Another option that may interest you would be the GrandMA onPC fader wing. I think these are roughly £2.5k and whilst you don't have any buttons or encoders for programming, this can be overcome to some extent with the addition of a touchscreen constantly running a command overlay. On one of those you get 15 faders, plus 15 executors, and 4 DMX ports as on the Maxi. Personally my opinion (and that of many others no doubt!) is that for theatre programming, the MA system is superior to Chamsys.

 

I appreciate you did originally specify no to PC wings, however I think sometimes these things get a bit of a stigma around them; and actually in many cases - this possibly being one of them - a wing-based system may be more appropriate to your needs than limiting yourself to the bottom of the range desk because it's the best one you can afford. (When I say bottom of the range, that's not to put the MQ40 down, it's good at what it does. But if there are more features that you could do with, you should look at how to get those features for your price, rather than doing without them to meet the budget).

 

I think one of the best features is the ability to give almost everything names. You can also set up the output screen grid to show you the lights in a fixed rig in the place they are, so I have mine laid out in a mimic of their real positions. So that screen gets lots of use, showing you where and what colour is actually on. Saves me lots of time.

 

If you like that, you'd love the MA's layout view. Each of these fixtures is a clickable object which when selected can have it's parameters adjusted. They too have colour coding to illustrate colour and intensity.

 

 

 

Maybe have a play with onPC sometime if you haven't already, I find it really good for quick programming to particular fixtures, or indeed problem solving because you can relate the image you see to what is in front of you very easily. It does take a while to get set up as seen above, but essentially you can import your AutoCAD image of the stage (as long as saved as an image), and then overlay the fixture-assigned buttons onto it. So the fixtures you see above aren't really objects, they're just an image. But because the buttons to select the fixtures aren't fixed to a grid, they can be freely moved over the graphic representations of the fixtures, to create what seems to be a visualisation.

[Shez]

It's a pity an MQ40 doesn't get the visualiser (and I have WYSIWYG but not Perform) - Doh!

You can run the visualiser on a connected computer quite happily with the hardware desks; it obviously runs as standard with the PC version too for pre-vis / programming.

 

On the subject of the MA option, I suspect the requirement for existing LDs to be able to use the desk without additional training may trump that one. MA is indeed hugely powerful but with that comes not insignificant complexity - if you've not used one before, it's not what I'd call intuitive.

[smalljoshua]

The MQ40 doesn't have a network port so it is severely limited as to expandability (Inc Vis).

 

Josh

[top-cat]

It's a pity an MQ40 doesn't get the visualiser (and I have WYSIWYG but not Perform) - Doh!

You can run the visualiser on a connected computer quite happily with the hardware desks; it obviously runs as standard with the PC version too for pre-vis / programming.

 

On the subject of the MA option, I suspect the requirement for existing LDs to be able to use the desk without additional training may trump that one. MA is indeed hugely powerful but with that comes not insignificant complexity - if you've not used one before, it's not what I'd call intuitive.

 

Visualiser - to run off a PC you need to network to PC. MQ40 doesn't have networking port so no, that option is out. This is part of why I still call that for under 3 grand you will get more functionality from a maxi wing than an MQ40.

 

Actually... I learnt the MA as quickly as I learnt Chamsys.

 

There's a lot of online tutorials, and once you get your head around the syntax commands (which are similar to the syntax commands in Chamsys) it becomes fairly simple to use.

 

There's a ton of stuff you can do that does take a lot of learning, but the basic functions that you would need to learn for Chamsys don't really take any longer on MA, and both offer free PC software which you can use to get a head start on.

[itiba]

I have been having a little dabble with chamsys recently on the OLE and have to say the quality of any training materials is pretty dire... if you look at the effort ETC have gone to with their Tea-break tutorials for all of their desks and the 40 or so training videos just for the Ion I have to say I've been quite dissapointed.