behringer line array, turbosound and NAMM 2014

[S&L]

well the ramp up to NAMM 2014 has started and I feel like a kid waiting for christmas - even if I won't be able to afford half the stuff.

I'm talking specifically about music group announcements and new kit.

so far I have seen veiled hints at a major update of firmware v2 for the x32 to be unveiled - and a redesigned x16.

I have just seen this post from sound forums and thought I would share - I hope that's proper protocol but if an admin would like to post the link instead, please feel free to edit.

it's well above my paygrade but I found the multi-beam steerable line array comment interesting.

 

here is the post:

 

Re: Behringer line array

Dear all,

Allow me to introduce myself.

My name is Andrew Pardoe and I am a Senior Manager, Acoustics at TURBOSOUND. I have 18 years of engineering experience and have worked at several world renown audio brands including TURBOSOUND several years back. I have recently re-joined the company to design transducers as well as complete speaker designs. I was involved in the Milan speakers we just launched and in the re-design of the ELX line array which will be re-introduced under the TURBOSOUND brand.

TURBOSOUND has always designed transducers either wholly or in partnership with a transducer manufacturer. In the earlier days this was mainly PD (Precision Devices). Even when using transducers from such well known brands as PD, B&C, Celestion and others, the driver design would be specified, tweaked and often completely designed by TURBOSOUND engineers to uniquely match the horn or loudspeaker enclosure as necessary.

Around ten years ago, with the launch of the Aspect series of point source loudspeaker systems, TURBOSOUND started manufacturing compression drivers in house with unique and also patented designs. Since then and with the launch of TURBOSOUND line arrays, mid-range drivers have also been manufactured in house currently at the Partridge Green facility, soon to be moving to Kidderminster where MIDAS and KLARK TEKNIK products are manufactured. As Joe Sanborn correctly stated, the company also buys drivers from sources such as B&C, Celestion, PD etc.

 

TURBOSOUND is committed to only using the highest quality components from the most technologically advanced suppliers, and manufactures components in house where significant performance improvements can be realised. We have since enlarged our transducer and acoustic engineering team accompanied through a large hiring initiative. The goal is to invest heavily in acoustic and driver research and technology.

 

When MUSIC Group acquired MIDAS three years ago, they invested US$ 4 million in a large R&D building in Manchester which is now a high-tech research centre. Also, within the last 3 years since the company purchased MIDAS, they increased the number of engineers from the original 8 to 60 currently and more are being hired. If you ever have a chance, drop by as it has become an impressive place and the guys are working on incredible stuff.

 

The same is now happening with TURBOSOUND and strong investments are already flowing into the brand. We are soon opening an acoustic research centre in Manchester so the MIDAS DSP engineers can work hand in handwith the acoustic engineers. Since the acquisition, the company has acquired a license for patented multi-beam steerable line array technology because products of this kind are on the roadmap.

 

The NAMM show will be a big eye opener with a huge roll out of new TURBOSOUND products. If you can’t get to the show make sure you read up about the new products on the internet.

I hope this answers your questions.

 

Happy New Year everyone.

 

Andrew Pardoe

Senior Manager, Acoustics

MUSIC Group

TURBOSOUND

[david.elsbury]

So it's not a behringer line array, its a turbosound line array... and turbosound happen to be owned by music group who also own behringer.

 

I know you love the x32 and you're a bit of a fan boy but is the title of the topic deliberately misleading?

[S&L]

So it's not a behringer line array, its a turbosound line array... and turbosound happen to be owned by music group who also own behringer.

 

I know you love the x32 and you're a bit of a fan boy but is the title of the topic deliberately misleading?

 

well it WAS a behringer array - and it WAS on sale in the states for a limited time before it got pulled - apparently you can still buy it from the distributor out there at knock down prices. NOW it's a turbsound array but they don't even appear to have changed the ELX tag - and it remains to be seen where the price leaves the system.

for myself, I'm more interested in their IQ line but that seems to have gone quiet - who knows whether they will surface as turbosound or behringer. I seem to recall that the speakers were being designed by turbosound - maybe they are changing the brand name on those too - if so then presumably the amp sections will still come out of behringer's china facility.

I also found the comment about a multi beam steerable system interesting though.

 

for the record, I AM a fan of the x32 - through experience as much as anything. I'm also a fan of the company business model - I'm still waiting for some folks to cotton on to the fact that at this point behringer, turbosound and midas are just brand names for the same company - yeah ok there ARE distinctions, but just like any smart corporation they point price,

so what difference does it make whether it's turbosound or behringer or midas on the badge? None really - they are designed by the same people, marketed by the same people, just using different names to mark out different price points.

Music Group seem to be a company that has grasped the tech, grasped business and tech integration and got the jump on some of the other companies - that makes them interesting to watch for developments. the nature of business is that some place out there (maybe yamaha and line6?) there is another corporation set to leapfrog music group - at that point maybe someone is going to call me a 'yamaha' fan boy.

[csg]

Behringer do a lot of things very well - but im fairly convinced from what I have seen that the rot has set in at midas and KT, and they are not the companies that they were before aquisition. The same will happen to Turbosound, and the forced move from their long time base at Partridge Green, and the loss of the bulk of their long standing engineering team will only speed the process.

 

The acquisition of these high end brands was / is more to the advantage of the Music Group than the former high end brands....

[S&L]

The acquisition of these high end brands was / is more to the advantage of the Music Group than the former high end brands....

 

that seems to make sense.

looking from my vantage at the bottom of the pile it appears both ends have been drawn towards the middle - BUT may that be a better place for those high end brands to be in terms of survival I wonder? it strikes me that a global company that plays the middle of the market is more able to support expensive R&D and complex electronics manufacture in a technologically progressive market. for smaller companies like turbosound it may well be a case of drfit to the middle or your product range stagnates and dies.

again looking from the cheap seats, it never seemed to me that music group were trying to work in midas' market area, nor were they going after presonus particularly - I assume that they are targeting the middle money market and going hard after yamaha and the like. there has to be be more money in outselling the LS9 range than going after anything higher and likewise there has to be more money in going after the ev, yamaha and HK speaker lines than martin speaker lines.

I would be very surprised if EV/Bosch, Yamaha/line6, Mackie and others weren't already plotting similar products and alliances or products to beat what are not even out yet from the music group.

if you deal with those high end low volume products I should imagine you may be a little disappointed at a slow slide towards the middle - but if like myself you are of limited means wanting to put on a great show then the picture looks a little rosier.

[Stuart91]

The acquisition of these high end brands was / is more to the advantage of the Music Group than the former high end brands....

 

Possibly, but why did the high end brands choose to sell up? To the best of my knowledge none of the acquisitions were hostile takeovers, the management / owners of Midas, KT, Turbosound etc. all chose to join the Music Group fold.

 

What state would they have been in if they had chosen to remain independent?

[Doug Siddons]

The acquisition of these high end brands was / is more to the advantage of the Music Group than the former high end brands....

 

Possibly, but why did the high end brands choose to sell up? To the best of my knowledge none of the acquisitions were hostile takeovers, the management / owners of Midas, KT, Turbosound etc. all chose to join the Music Group fold.

 

What state would they have been in if they had chosen to remain independent?

 

The cynic in me see's it as a very good exit strategy for the management of those companies and bearing in mind, for the most part, it was/is during a very bad global depression, an excellant business decision.

 

 

[dbuckley]

Midas have noted that the pro 2 series wouldn't have made it out the door unless someone stumped up a lot of money, they were heading for titsup.com.

 

So the fact that Midas equipment can still be purchased is down to every Disco Dave and Weekend Warrior who bought Behringer over the last however many years.

 

I've yet to hear anyone call the low end Midas stuff rubbish, it is still good kit, and Midas still exist.

 

Result all round, I'd say.

 

Of course, wh knows what the scene will be like in ten years...

[richard_cooper]

The acquisition of these high end brands was / is more to the advantage of the Music Group than the former high end brands....

 

Errr, didn't the Music Group buy Midas/Klark from Bosh, and Turbosound from Proel, so now no less high end independent brands than before? Perhaps those previous owners could not make those "high end brands" work as business and so sold them. Good luck to the Music Group I say, and I'll buy the best product for me whoever supplies it.

[Electrolytic]

Music group has saved Midas/Klark and Turbosound from holding companies that didn't know where to take them nor invest the money needed.

 

Music group has scouted out the best players and has the the strongest 'hand' at the table.

 

Why wouldn't you want to surround yourself with the best in the business?

[Stuart91]

So the fact that Midas equipment can still be purchased is down to every Disco Dave and Weekend Warrior who bought Behringer over the last however many years.

 

Uli is evidently a very smart businessman, he's not bought these companies as a vanity project or charity case. There will be a long-term game plan for each of them to return profits to the mothership. Where the larger group can make the difference is in economies of scale, and access to capital, and possibly the ability to sustain losses for several years whilst new products come to fruition. Or the technology that will be developed at the high end of the market will trickle down over time and give their lower-end offerings an edge.

 

Behringer have essentially ceded much of the very bottom end of the market anyway, they are rarely the very cheapest. But their kit is perceived as being great bang for the buck, and being 10% cheaper than rock bottom but with a couple of neat features that the competitors don't have, isn't a bad place to be.

 

Anyone competing with Music Group will have a hard time keeping up with their sheer economies of scale. Around the time the X32 was released, I spoke with someone from a rival desk manufacturer, who was convinced that the X32 was a loss leader, and couldn't see how they were making any money at all given what components etc. went into them. What we now know is that Music Group own factories producing many of the component parts. Notably, they manufacture their own moving faders. How on earth can Presonus compete with that?

[Simon Lewis]

Many of these firms have been previously owned - either by larger pro audio companies or by investors. Being part of a very large firm may have its advantages but can also lead to marginalisation or stagnation of product development and sales. In many cases, the name or product was not sufficient on its own to bring the expected returns to the new owners and the investment needed to develop the brand never fully materialised. Pro audio is a niche market, and whilst it may look attractive to some investors, it's not the money earner many hope it would be.

 

Firms like MIDAS made the transition to digital desks late in the day, when competitors were firmly established. Their flagship products were excellent, but volume sales were never likely and the cost of development and production was such that they could not compete in the lower cost market. The Music Group purchase enabled them to produce a high quality lower cost product that is selling well and taking on the competition.

 

Turbosound has some excellent products and technologies, but does not have the market share it once enjoyed. It too could benefit from significant investment and - handled carefully - the Music Group may well be able to do a similar job with them.

[dbuckley]

Uli is evidently a very smart businessman... There will be a long-term game plan for each of them ... Anyone competing with Music Group will have a hard time

 

This.

 

Uli said he was out to change the game, what none of us realised at the time is that that was just lost in the translation; what he said in German to his underlings was he was out for world domination. They didn't believe him either, and translated it to a less creepy catch phrase.

 

There is a decent chance that one day all pro-audio equipment will be Music Group.

 

Will the next generation of Turbosound active speakers be "Powered by Midas" or "Powered by iNuke"?

[Bobbsy]

Behringer do a lot of things very well - but im fairly convinced from what I have seen that the rot has set in at midas and KT, and they are not the companies that they were before aquisition.

 

I'm curious about what you characterise as "the rot" at Midas.

 

My contact with Midas is limited these days but I know that when our local receiving house had a Pro 6 problem recently, they got straight onto the phone to Midas in the UK and received immediate and knowledgeable support just like always. In the longer term we'll see what the next cycle of new models brings (but I wouldn't have expected anything beyond the expansion of the "Pro X" series yet but, for now, I haven't seen any evidence of a negative impact at Midas--and, as has been said, the fact that the doors are open and the company trading is evidence of a positive impact.

[paulears]

I have to say I'm very impressed how they dusted themselves off, and set up a top-notch world wide decent network. People who's job seemed to be to scour the internet for problems and jump and and fix them, immediately - without going via a dealer, which although fine, adds time. I've not seen any other brand join a forum as a member, and then publicly promise to the one upset or distraught owner instant solutions, and then make sure they happen. How can anyone find anything wrong in this?

 

I spent a lot of money some years ago on some Turbosound wedges (2 x 12"). When I needed a new HF driver, Turbosound were as unhelpful as they could be without actually saying "no we can't help". My query wasn't even technical. I couldn't get the damn thing out. I'd re-painted them twice, and the apparent access route was via a small panel - but it refused to come out. I just wanted to know if it was just stuck by the paint, or was there a hidden fixing I didn't know about. Such a simple query but nobody would answer emails, or find the right person on the phone. In the end, I belted it with a hammer and it popped out. Maybe a bit of Behringer input would put this right.