djc007 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 anyone any thourghts on doing a school production of Les Miserables on a 24 way elara desk?Possible?seen as we only have an 18 channle manual furse board at the moment!!Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I've used the Alcora before in that sort of situation and it did the trick admirably. I would imagine it is fairly similar to the Elara. The Elara is a bit more rock 'n' roll having lots of submasters. In a theatre situation you might prefer the cue stack style of the Alcora which runs a sequence of cues from the 'go' button. The Alcora (and I imagine the Elara) does however take a bit of getting used to, especially if you are using it in 'wide' mode to achieve the 24 channels. It can get very confusing which 'page' of channels you are looking at and which have been stored. I seem to recall seeing a 24/48 channel version from Zero88 recently which would probably make things a bit easier. I dont know what your programming skills are like, but I would always recommend a zero 88 sirius as very simple boards to learn on and great for school type shows. If all goes wrong you can always turn to the manual faders! They're fine for theatre stuff where submasters arent an issue but the small number of chases you can store can be annoying. Its what I learnt on to start with! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Take a look on Strand's site at the 200 series desks. Better features than the Elara, and cheaper! However, I'm not going to recommend the 200 wholeheartedly just yet ... I've just bought one and there appears to be an issue with the outputs lagging behind what the faders are doing (flash buttons are fine, though). I've got the R&D chaps at Strand looking into it for me as we speak, and hopefully it'll just need a quick modification of the software. I'll let you know what tranpsires ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Take a look on Strand's site at the 200 series desks. Better features than the Elara, and cheaper! However, I'm not going to recommend the 200 wholeheartedly just yet ... I've just bought one and there appears to be an issue with the outputs lagging behind what the faders are doing (flash buttons are fine, though). I've got the R&D chaps at Strand looking into it for me as we speak, and hopefully it'll just need a quick modification of the software. I'll let you know what tranpsires ...Here we go again Gareth........ ;) First class of ideas :ph34r: Did you not just ask a question about the 1/4 second lag of the output on the 200 desk??? Trust you to advise a desk from Strand which is only just getting to grips with the software... Are Strand the New (perhaps a forefunner to) Microsoft........ make a new desk but let the customer do the product testing!! :blink: :D :o ( I can see what Lightnix means about hiese emotives... they can be quite addictive!!! :) :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Don't get me wrong, Paul - I'm not saying the 200 is without fault - the fader lag thing is only one of about 5 or 6 points that I'm discussing with Strand at the moment (but it's the only one which has a real operational impact). I just think that the 200 has a much better feature set than the Zero88 Elara, for less outlay. 24 effects as opposed to three ; the ability to save to a standard CF card rather than a proprietary memory module ; the ability to run all 48 recordable scenes as a sequential stack with timed crossfades ; the imminent availability of a video card that will output to a VGA monitor ; that sort of thing ... But it all hinges on whether they can sort out this lag problem - if not, the 200 will be going back to where it came from!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Don't get me wrong, Paul - I'm not saying the 200 is without fault - the fader lag thing is only one of about 5 or 6 points that I'm discussing with Strand at the moment (but it's the only one which has a real operational impact). I just think that the 200 has a much better feature set than the Zero88 Elara, for less outlay. 24 effects as opposed to three ; the ability to save to a standard CF card rather than a proprietary memory module ; the ability to run all 48 recordable scenes as a sequential stack with timed crossfades ; the imminent availability of a video card that will output to a VGA monitor ; that sort of thing ... But it all hinges on whether they can sort out this lag problem - if not, the 200 will be going back to where it came from!! I think you can probably tell I am a fan of both Strand and Zero 88. Having taught both makes to students over the years, used them both and like them all. They do what you want them to do and without having to sit donw with a manual to learn how to use it......... Can the same be said of a Pearl for example? Not had the pleasure of using a 100 or 200 series yet. but Strand needed to compete with Zero at the lower end of the market as Zero had ( or maybe have) it sown up? Very strange though about the lagging - not come across that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Interesting as it is (cough cough ) you guys seem to have gone a bit off track. Was the original question not more about the feasibility of doing a big musical on a 24 way desk? Or have I got that wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Interesting as it is (cough cough ) you guys seem to have gone a bit off track. Was the original question not more about the feasibility of doing a big musical on a 24 way desk? Or have I got that wrong?Well, the simple answer is that as long as you have enough channels to control the quantity of kit you've rigged (or, to put it another way, as long as you limit the size of the rig to what can be comfortably controlled by the board!!) what you can get out of any desk is directly related to the ability of the operator. If the operator's a good one, you can work miracles with a 24-channel manual desk. Conversely, the best desk in the world operated by an idiot with no clue as to what they're doing is going to produce something that looks terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Interesting as it is (cough cough ) you guys seem to have gone a bit off track. I blame Gareth... he always goes off on one given half the chance!!!! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 I assume that in addition to getting a bigger desk you'll also be getting another dimmer pack, otherwise those extra 6 ways will not be much use.You can squeeze a bit more out of your rig by doing an interval re-patch (preferably powering down first though most don't!). Should get you a few more specials. Otherwise, just don't try to be too ambitious. I have to confess to not knowing either the board or the show, but my experience of doing shows with small rigs is try and have one "spectacular" lighting moment (somewhere appropriate) rather than lots of damp squibs. Is any of this any help djc007? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 anyone any thourghts on doing a school production of Les Miserables on a 24 way elara desk?Possible?seen as we only have an 18 channle manual furse board at the moment!!Dan Further to being "redirected back to the original post" by Tom :blink: (Thanks Tom) The amount of resources available to one as a lighting designer are rarely enough to achieve everything you want to achieve - whether the amount of equipment, numbers of lighting units, positions, dimmers, control channels, plotting, rigging, focusing time, size of crew............ One has to make the best of a bad lot a great deal of the time. 99% of the time we do not have the resources available to the likes of David Hersey or Durham Marenghi. Maybe the question is.... "Am I capable to designing the lighting for this production using the resources I have available to me?" The answer surely is going to be a resounding yes! When I first started out I was lighting 2 operas in rep. using 12 channels of dimmers, a 2 preset desk and 10-12 lanterns. The "art" is not seeing how many MAC500's you can get on the plan, but how light is used - often the most effective lighting states are using 2,3 or 4 lights and not 50. Experiment with cross-light - you can light an 8 metre stage with a remarkably small number of units compared with Front of house - using front of house just for face fills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Maybe the question is.... "Am I capable to designing the lighting for this production using the resources I have available to me?" The answer surely is going to be a resounding yes! When I first started out I was lighting 2 operas in rep. using 12 channels of dimmers, a 2 preset desk and 10-12 lanterns. The "art" is not seeing how many MAC500's you can get on the plan, but how light is used - often the most effective lighting states are using 2,3 or 4 lights and not 50. Experiment with cross-light - you can light an 8 metre stage with a remarkably small number of units compared with Front of house - using front of house just for face fills.Good points from Paul there. It has oft been said that the most important aspects of a lighting state aren't what yo put in, they're what you leave out. I agree about crosslight, too - many people. When starting out in design, will just pile a load of light into a scene from the front, then wonder why it looks so dull and flat. Crosslight gives a much more interesting look, with more 'modelling' and depth. But remember that it's not always appropriate!! Re. the comment about re-patching - that's a very good way to get more from a rig with limited control channels. One of the more 'interesting' design jobs I've done in recent years was a big semi-pro opera production, with a cast of about 60, nine distinct and different scenes to light, a multi-level/multi-area set, and 28 dimmer channels with which to do it. Not only did the interval have a re-patch, but most of the scene changes involved a visit by a stage electrician to the dimmer racks to swap some plugs around. The important thing is to make sure your paperwork is in order, so that in a rehearsal situation you are able to jump to any point in the show and know exactly what state the hard patch should be in at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djc007 Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 heya guys. thanks for the advice. Re-patching during the show will be the last thing on my mind. !! Anyway, you guys seem to like the elara, and that's hopefully what we're hiring out to do the job.I'm also after some effects...We're building scaffold towers either side of the apron on the stage, and I was thinking of having some uplighting, and maybe a couple of intelligent lights up on the scaffold to project gobos downwards, and indicate shafts of light moving eg torches.This sounds good on paper, but is it achievable on with what intelligent lights ( and companies) do you recommend?thanks in advancedjc007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 I'm also after some effects...We're building scaffold towers either side of the apron on the stage, and I was thinking of having some uplighting, and maybe a couple of intelligent lights up on the scaffold to project gobos downwards, and indicate shafts of light moving eg torches.This sounds good on paper, but is it achievable on with what intelligent lights ( and companies) do you recommend?thanks in advancedjc007Ooh, you're getting into much deeper water now ... First off, if you're hiring in some movers, an Elara is completely the wrong thing to hire for control. You need something that can deal with both dimmer and moving lights - the Elara can't do that. I'll leave it up to Paul to recommend the Fat Frog ... Secondly, thing long and hard about why you're hiring the moving lights. If it's just for the two reasons you mentioned, think about whether there are other ways to do it - thus saving yourself some money to spend on a few more dimmers and generics. I know you might see moving lights as being the solution to all your problems, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are. Accquiring them is only a small part of the problem, you then have to think carefully about where to put them and how to use them in order to get the most out of them, and there's also the matter of plotting time - if you're not used to programming movers, it can take a lot longer than you think when you first try it! Remember, it's not what you've got, it's what you do with it. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 ....and maybe a couple of intelligent lights up on the scaffold to project gobos downwards, and indicate shafts of light moving eg torches....What about a bunch of source 4's and some stagehands with torches? Seriously, though, even though moving lights seems very exciting, if you don't really need them, then they're probably just a pain in the ass. No matter what you do with them, they'll almost always look like..well..moving lights. If you want torches offstage, then use torches offstage... (not sure what this smilie is supposed to represent, but he looks like a guy in stage blacks to me...therefore - it's a stagehand...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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