subs battle, Nexo's alpha, Funktion 1 F 218, etc

[Bad_Rock]

Hi dear friends. Im about to buy a proffesional system and I have some doubts specially in the sub woofer part.

 

I've seen the Nexo's alpha Sub woofer running over 2400w and also reviewed as a great sub woofer. But I've seen the Funktion's one F-218 as a Deep, clean and efforthless sub bass. But it runs only 900w.

 

I know tha SPL its very important too but can we compare them 2 and say that someone is really better than the other? Is it true that with the nexo one ill need less boxes than with the F-1 in larger amplifications.

 

What would you guys buy if u were me???

 

Thank you very much.

[paulears]

Don't forget that particularly with subs, the sensistivity and efficiency has amazing implications on perceived volume. Closed cabs, ported cabs, horns, combinations of each of these make big differences. I've been experimenting with loudspeaker design myself for a while now - and have been dismantling and measuring all sorts of subs to see if I could work out why they do what they do. One thing that became obvious was that with horn designs that concentrate on narrow fr response ranges (kick drum seems common) was that they appear to be much louder than their spec would suggest. Eminence or Celestion drivers with 300W ish RMS handling from a 15" cone. Some of the 15" HK subs give lots more volume than others I tested, but were only this efficient over a narrow area, dropping off quickly either side. Bigger designs that have larger power ratings have wider ranges, but this appears to be where the extra power is going, without really making them much louder.

 

My conclusion is that the choice of bottom end devices should mainly be made by analysing what music you are going to play. A full range, almost hi-fi quality will need lots of power, whereas something set up for drum & bass or house may be able to get away with a system that just looks after the bottom end bits the music has in plenty, and appear to be louder.

 

I did find that many so called subs are just ported cabs that actually could have a top limit much higher than they have - using the inbuilt crossover to divert the middle and top end. Others were much more complex inside - unsurprisingly, these were also much more expensive!

[Brian]

I know tha SPL its very important too but can we compare them 2 and say that someone is really better than the other?

 

Actually SPL is the only thing that matters - power consumed is irrelevant(ish).

 

In an ideal world the more power you put into a speaker the louder it gets; doubling the power should double the loudness. However, this isn't so in the real world - speakers suffer from something called 'power compression'.

 

For example - increasing drive from 100W to 200W should increase the SPL by 3dB but often doesn't. Any doubling of input power should see 3dB more output but as speakers get driven harder this rule fails.

 

Very few speaker manufacturers quote their compression figures or give enough information to see if they suffer from it.

 

Take the Nexo unit you refer to (I assume you're looking at the Alpha S2?)...

 

quoted sensitivity is 105dB 1W@1m. Drive 2400W into this and you should see 138.8 dB out ; they quote 140dB peak. Peak what? Peak when? Peak how? Meaningless.

 

The Funktion one unit only quotes the basic sensitivty as 105dB 1W@1m without any high level figures quoted which makes them impossible to compare.

 

The Nexo units power rating is done in terms of recommended amplifier power of 1800-2400W where the Funktion unit is just quoted as 900W rms, which I assume is the basic rating of the drivers. It's quite likely that the Nexo only has 900W of drive units - it's not unusual to have amps twice as big as your drivers.

 

The only way to compare speakers is to sit them side by side, driven by the same amps and to listen to them (unless you have access to measuring kit).

[Bad_Rock]

Thank you for your help, but still I dont know what to do I mean. Can the F-1 sub be as loud as the Nexo one even with only 900w rms ? :D I saw at very cheaper subs like the JBl Srx 2241 and it has 1200w too. Im affraid I might spend 2000 pounds in a sub that it is so fine that u need to put many instead of buying a real workhorse that can work as 2 cabinets. :o

[paulears]

What Brian's saying is that you will have to try them out if you really want to find out. The manufacturers specs simply won't tell you as you can never compare like for like.

 

For what it's worth, it is quite possible for a 300W max rated cab to sound louder than a 1200W, much larger box. The bigger box may sound better, but that's never guaranteed.

[Bad_Rock]

Well thank you for your support but dont you think im posting this to avoid buying them two and save some money? :D

[bruce]

I think what people are suggesting is that you try to listen to both options - ideally side-by-side, in a similar sort of venue to the one you're going to be using - before parting with cash.

 

It's difficult to say if one option is "better" than another. A bit like asking if a Volkswagen Golf is better than a Land Rover, or a Mazda MX5. They all do broadly similar jobs, but the details are different. Only you can decide which one is right for your specific purposes

 

Manufacturers specs, and other peoples opinions, are all useful. But in the end, it's your ears (and brain and wallet) that should make the final decision.

 

Bruce.

[Brian]

Hi Bad Rock

 

as others have said, I'd really suggest trying out the two cabinets side by side. You wouldn't spend £2,000 on a car without taking it on a test drive would you?

 

Any supplier worth dealing with will be able to arrange this; you might find those that are only interested in shifting boxes aren't much help as they probably don't carry any demo units but then do you want to deal with such companies?

[Pete McCrea]

Get them to let you listen. If they care enough to help you make an informed decision then I'd think they'd be worth giving your hard earned to. And try to arrange a direct side by side comparison.

[Bad_Rock]

Well thank you to everyone. But sadly in my country the closest place to see both brands its in a magazine. Whatever I want I must bring it directly from Europe :D

 

Well let me ask something a bit easier. Is it Funktion one equipment superior to Nexo ? And are those low watts subs strong enought to be compared with other top of the line brands ?

[paulears]

for the price you are considering spending - especially from out of your country (where are you?) wouldn't it be much more sensible to get on a plane? Spending this sort of money without listening is totally crazy. What you're getting is peoples preferences - fine, but will it sound like what you are expecting? Probably not.

 

For what it's worth - I think you are mad to buy anything of this value without hearing it.

 

Can you not at least go to one of the big trade shows? With a wadge of money in your pocket, they'll all be very nice to you.

[gazman]

There are some major differences between the Nexo and Funktion one subs and I think in order for you to make an informed decision as to which is "better" or at least better for your application, you should consider the following:

 

The nexo is a resonator or bandpass cabinet design. In general the pro audio community looks down on these types of subs nowadays because of the vast amounts of distortion they "can" produce. Contrary to this however the nexo particular design is a tried and tested solution that is used by many big companies to much success.

 

The funktion one is a horn loaded box (albeit a short-horn), this damps the driver movement (resulting in less distortion) and also projects the sound more. If you're doing outdoor or even large venue this will make a difference to how far the sound travels.

 

To be honest though without a clear definition of what you are going to do with these boxes it is impossible to definitively answer you're question.

 

For example the Nexo box (wired in parallel) is 3ohms and the F-218 4ohms. This doesn't make one better than the other but it does require a different approach to how you're going to amplify them.

[Bad_Rock]

Oh well. I finally bought 4 Upas 1p. I hope I did the right thing :s

 

On tuesday I will fly to the musik messe and I will check out the other things.

 

Thank for your help guys.

 

Peace!!!

 

( this forum its amazing ) :)

[TonyMitchell]

Can the F-1 sub be as loud as the Nexo one even with only 900w rms ? I saw at very cheaper subs like the JBl Srx 2241 and it has 1200w too

 

the F1 is horn loaded whereas the JBL SRX series are reflex boxes

 

the new SRX 728s is 1600wrms, I'd like to AB them against a pair of F218s

[phil dekked]

Well that`s a lot of confused information...?

 

The F1 218 is a 2x 18" Band Pass Horn ASSISTED sub, the drivers are rated at rms 450w . I work for a company that uses F1 218`s and we put 800w across each driver using an FFa 6000 @ 2 ohms to run 2 x 218`s a side, thats 1600w a box ( and before it gets messy about program , peak , ppl etc that`s rms a box). They outperform the Nexo alpha s2 in every way apart from the price obviously AND being a completely different box!!!!! They are ok on their own but work best ( like all horn loaded / assisted designs) when coupled with other bins. Anyway...

 

What boxes are you running above your subs ? Are they horn loaded , reflex ...? What do you want to x-over your subs at..? How many people are you catering for ? Are you worried about weight , size , truck pack ...blah blah..?

 

There`s so many factors to choosing a good coherent , tight sounding system and having a lot of mis-information doesn`t help!! Obviously where your based it ain`t easy to get side by side comparisons and everyones right to say get a listen to both but sometimes you have limited choices.. :( . It sounds like you were being misinformed to swing a sale?

 

But you`ve made a choice so hope the Meyers work for ya... :D

 

.p.

 

edited `cos I was informed that the rms rating of the F1 drivers IS 450w a driver. So 900 watt rms is correct but as I stated we put 800 watt across each driver no problem . I`ll just shuffle off into the corner and hang my head for a bit.............