BigYinUK Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 HI all. Latest example of this is as I hadn't heard anything from the venue and I had my suspicions that there might be an issue, I rang the promoter, only to be told, "yes your riders here somewhere but I haven't had time to read it" (gig the coming weekend btw).... anyway after getting put through to their noisey, it turns outs they've no drum kit mics. FFS --- luckily our drummer has a set that he nearly always brings with him. I've wondered whether we should send a contract out that says somewhere that the T&Cs in the rider form part of that contract and not consider the booking confirmed until we've had it back signed. At least that might make the beggars read it. What do other bands etc do to ensure that their rider is read? I'd far rather have a call or an email striking stuff out than turn up on the night only to find out there isn't actually a house PA or similar show stopper. Regards Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibbothegreat Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 This is probably deeply unfair as I suspect I'm preaching to the converted, but sending an accurate rider would be a great way to get them taken more seriously. I have simply lost count of the times I've prepared a gig according to what I've been sent, only for the band to arrive and say 'oh that's last year's/the old one/ah, we've made a few changes' and finding I would be better off not having done anything in advance at all. I genuinely don't think I've had one rider which has been accurate in the last year. Unfortunately, can't quite get out of the habit of preparing as much as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I've wondered whether we should send a contract out that says somewhere that the T&Cs in the rider form part of that contract and not consider the booking confirmed until we've had it back signed. At least that might make the beggars read it. In my experience, that would be fairly normal. Of course different people read the rider & pick out different things. One old boss never really looked at the technical part, but could spot a bottle of gin, on the third page and cross out before it fell out of the printer. As far as he was concerned, "we've had 10 piece bands loads of times so a five piece will be no problem", and in many ways, he was right. Only the really big ones usually made it to me before they were agreed & sent back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top-cat Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 What do other bands etc do to ensure that their rider is read? I'd far rather have a call or an email striking stuff out than turn up on the night only to find out there isn't actually a house PA or similar show stopper. You may have thought it folklore, but there is actually some truth in the rock n roll legend of bands demanding a glass vase full of M&Ms with the green ones taken out. I have it on good authority that this was indeed done by artists to ensure that the full details of the rider were being read, top to bottom, front to back. As a side note, if you see that an artist wants 'half a dozen white roses' in their dressing room, it's not a dozen they want half of, and neither is it roses that need to be white... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjb Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 What goes on tour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 What goes on tour... stays on facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top-cat Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I think it's reasonably common knowledge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichM Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I've wondered whether we should send a contract out that says somewhere that the T&Cs in the rider form part of that contract and not consider the booking confirmed until we've had it back signed. This is what I do for the band I work with. I also have the version number and revision date printed into the header of each page to help ensure people get the most up to date document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Admittedly I don't have experience across the whole market but in everything from WMC's right up to arena shows I've never seen an act / performer contract that didn't explicitly state that the rider was a key part of the contract and failure to adhere to it would incur the booker some serious costs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I always put a 'Valid to' date on my riders. They usually cease to be valid a week after they show they relate to. I also repeat that date within the text of the rider so that some helpful soul can't delete it without it looking odd. I try to make sure that the person running the crew on the day of the show is the recipient of the rider and not an intermediate office bod who interprets it onto in house standard paperwork thus loosing important details in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichM Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I also find it useful to have a copy of the latest version stored on Dropbox so I can quickly / easily share it out to those that need a copy, onto their phone / ipad / whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 I act as "Technical Manager" for the band so its my responsibility to ensure the rider is kept up to date and the correct version sent out. Currently it says "Autumn 2013 - updated 7th Nov 2013" in the document header. Anything changes in the band the rider gets updated and gets a new date etc. We keep a copy of the latest version on our website so we can either send a link in an email or the actual pdf document. I am going to badger our acting manager about a contract (as posts above). I think its essential, as I can see the day coming when something really critical is missing, the show won't be able to go ahead and the venue will blame having to refund 500 tickets at the last minute on the band. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I suspect the biggest problem is that technical riders are meaningless to the office, so getting to the right person is the snag. Most have a signing box and request for return, but my venue never sign them or return them, and only do anything if I ask them. I always respond to the riders when an email or phone number is present, and so many times the people you talk to have no idea what is in their own rider! A guns and rose tribute, according to the rider wanted a 9 way monitor mix with on stage mixer and op - I pointed out that if their 4 piece needed this, it was fine - BUT the extra costs would be recharged. Don't worry about monitors then, was the response. We pointed out a few things and explained that if they wished to give us a left and right to our FOH system that was fine, as most people prefer their own monitors. No response - when they arrived, they brought back line only expecting not just our FOH system, but monitors and mics too, which in our case, would probably have been free - IF - they'd asked for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 I wonder if that's the same G 'n' R tribute I know? Sounds like it might be ** laughs out loud ** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 There are two sides to every rider SNAFU and both sides have multiple places where it can go FUBAR despite every effort to make it work. There is no possible system which can account for the vagaries and human interfaces involved. I think I have seen the most bonkers of riders and the worst responses by venues and the common factor is a lack of communication. It is good practice to have a reasonable rider with acceptable alternatives but some acts get silly and demand the impossible. It is good practice to have a venue tech list but a ten year old one with a comprehensive list of everything that has been nicked or broken is equally silly. I think we have to accept that riders will always be a bone of contention and the best we can manage is a phone call. If an item of kit is critical to the show then my knee-jerk response would be; "Tour it with you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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