At what point do you pull a show on safety grounds

[emj]

I’ve just finished a 40-date UK tour

Venue size was from 200 to 1500 seats

 

On 4 occasions I could have pulled the show due to lifting gear obviously failing a visual inspection

I’m an experienced gear inspector and rigger

 

And 1 occasion on electrical safety grounds

Again I have a lot of experience of carrying out electrical safety inspections

 

All where bought attention of the venue some they reassured us where correct. we did not push they issue not wanting to pull the show. Non where at the point of catastrophic failure

 

The producers have cut the Venus from the autumn tour schedule on health and safety grounds

 

Just posting to see what peoples thoughts are

 

Thanks

Em

[paulears]

dodgy this - I've been put in similar positions myself on lx grounds (no pun intended)

 

It seems to me that if you knew it was unsafe, then if the worst happened during the show you would be pinned to the mast and shot. I can't imagine a jury feeling sorry for you. If you had the power to pull, you should have. If there was someone else in charge, then s/he would have had the problem instead, once you pointed it out.

 

The problem, as people in this position know, is that if you want to work for the production company again..................

[Guest lightnix]

The problem, as people in this position know, is that if you want to work for the production company again..................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm... the age old dilemma ;)

 

I thought that way for many years, but in the end began to turn it around, so that the "if" became a "do". Do you want to work for the production company again? Do you want to work for a Prod Co that puts you in such positions?

 

At least in your case the Prod Co has shown a responsible attitude by cutting the "venus" (venues?) from the next leg of the tour and it sounds like you may have a client worth keeping there. Even so, if it were me, I'd sit down with them for a little chat, or write to them thanking them for their positive action, but warning them that in future I would have no qualms about pulling the show, should similar situations arise.

 

Surely the contractual obligations to provide safe, legal kit lie with the venues and it it is they, not you, who will have to pick up the tab should a show have to be cancelled because they have failed to meet them.

 

"Making it happen, come what may" and "the show must go on" are all very well, but if they result in death / injury to you, your colleagues and / or members of the public, with the resulting decimation of your reputation, career, bank account and (possibly) liberty, then what's the point? In these litigious times, covering your own a$$ is just as important IMHO, because nobody else will and if your client isn't prepared to give you the back-up you need to ensure that safety is a priority, then they are not worth keeping, IMHO.

 

Best of luck ;)

[AC03]

this is what I was taught.,

if Someone is in direct danger stop

Or if someone is in indirect danger but beyond reasonable doubt

[sam.henderson]

That theory works on paper but not really in real life for example: a few weeks ago I was doing a small rock gig, some jokers (as always) think its clever to start pushing a few people around and making a scene. FOH security/ ushers come to sort out 'trouble makers' and they are ejected. For about 3 minutes the people around them were in direct danger of getting hit, knocked etc. and for about 2 mins the ushers were in direct danger of the same, but it didn't constitute a show stop! I was aware of the situation and monitored it but it didn't go through my mind to stop the show!! If a show was stopped every time something like this happened then there would be an amazing ammount of shows/ concerts whatever stopped!!

 

Sam

 

Sam

[the kid]

Ah yes but how many times would a show be stopped mid performance?

[TomLyall]

That theory works on paper but not really in real life for example: a few weeks ago I was doing a small rock gig, some jokers (as always) think its clever to start pushing a few people around and making a scene. FOH security/ ushers come to sort out 'trouble makers' and they are ejected. For about 3 minutes the people around them were in direct danger of getting hit, knocked etc. and for about 2 mins the ushers were in direct danger of the same, but it didn't constitute a show stop! I was aware of the situation and monitored it but it didn't go through my mind to stop the show!! If a show was stopped every time something like this happened then there would be an amazing ammount of shows/ concerts whatever stopped!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I think I can safely say that in that situation, had you have stopped the show, it would probably have made the situation much worse...

 

I think the topic is talking about stopping the show on H&S grounds, in relation to the actual operation of the show itself, as apposed to the behavior of the audience.

 

Tom

[andy_s]

Ah yes but how many times would a show be stopped mid performance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I suspect gunfire usually stops the show (cf recent events in Brixton)

 

I've been a punter at a gig in the Dublin Castle which was temporarily stopped when a fight refused to fizzle out - the florries were turned on, much to the disgust of the band (The Selecter) and rest of the crowd, the police arrived and removed the fighters, florries turned off and BAnd continued. Blew the atmosphere a bit.

 

On the other hand, I was working at large concert hall in Bristol when a middle aged punter died in the Circle. Ambulance crew attended, removed (with great difficulty, 'cos he was a pretty big bloke) the man from the audience and took him away. Show carried on all through this - don't think the band even knew anything had happened.

 

Oh and I think violence in the audience might be considered a health and safety hazard.

[TomLyall]

Oh and I think violence in the audience might be considered a health and safety hazard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Definitely, I didn't mean to imply that was not the case, I was just stating that the topic was probably talking more of the technical safety issues.

 

Wouldn't everything be much easier without the audience...

[andy_s]

Oh and I think violence in the audience might be considered a health and safety hazard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Definitely, I didn't mean to imply that was not the case, I was just stating that the topic was probably talking more of the technical safety issues.

 

Wouldn't everything be much easier without the audience...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

agreed. (also about the probable topic) They never turn up on time, and then they all want to go to the toilet at the same time. If that's not a health and safety issue, I don't know what is. (perhaps I should point out that our audience at Unicorn consists largely of primary school coach parties! I suppose that looking on the bright side that means gunfire is less likely to be an issue....)

[AC03]

Safety in the audience is important

but aren't you always going to get a few like that at a gig,

and if your doing a musical I dent think the audience are goanna break out into fights.

a lot of this just depends on different peoples view and definition of the phrase "direct danger"

 

do you think if a fight breaks out at a gig between two people that its just part of the atmosphere and should be let to carry on?

[TomLyall]

do you think if a fight breaks out at a gig between two people that its just part of the atmosphere and should be let to carry on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Definately not. While I'm not saying you should 'get involved' you shouldn't stand by and watch a fight break out in your audience. Also, innocent audience members may get injured, which isn't acceptable.

 

However, I do strongly believe that disputes in the audience are not the responsibility of the technical crew, leaving you with two options, either phone the police or leave it to security or FOH staff, if they are there do do that job.

 

Tom

[the kid]

Now we have drifted in to a new realm but what about a mosh pit at a gig what is acceptable and what is not?

[AC03]

but what about a mosh pit at a gig what is acceptable and what is not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that mosh pit should have the pushing, its how people get into the mood, and if people don't want to get pushed about, they just simply don't go into the mosh pit.

 

it gets out of hand when people get to violent.

[Modge]

to me (as a punter not from a work point of view - in my technical opinion it's securities problem not mine. I might add it's very funny watching our new security staff brown their pants the first rock-night they work when they see the pit) it depends what gig - a thrash \ death \ black metal gig say "The haunted" as an example I went to then I expect the pit frankly to hurt. Really quite a lot, even possibly punching, though I'll generally stay out of it if there is. On the other hand a “levellers†gig a bit of jumping about, maybe pushing at most. Most people who go know what to expect certainly after the first time! I won't claim no one who doesn't want to get involved doesn't: to quote from another board I use (and which you have to register with to read hence massive quote not link)

<snip>

Spent the entire evening in a packed Astoria been squashed by people when I was already in a lot of pain and then the music and lights and I was just like "ARGH HELP!"... probably didn't help that I had two sizeable Long Island Ice Tea's beforehand but hey, you know that ####'s hardcore. or something. So yeah anyways I'm cool with this... after all, it's NINE INCH NAILS! But then the #### reeeaaally hit the fan.

 

In this place, you move a step to the left and the full force of the left side of the room retaliated with tsunami-like force. I mean it; it was battery-hen-like conditions. Not such a bad thing in itself, it gives you the opportunity to fondle many a beautiful lady and not get cuaght. Swish. But then, these ####ing small, stupid mother####ers decide "HEY, MOSHPIT TIME!"

 

Now by and large, I think moshpits are cool. Yeah sure, "o' sexually frustrated one, release that tension!" you gotta kinda feel sorry for the ########s. But sweet jesus, there was noooooo room for it, so poor people and getting involved when they don't wanna be, they're happily dancing (yeah, proper dancing) to NIN and some thick #### just him/her in the back of the head! CHRIST YOU #### OFF. But the worst bit, the worst bit, was when I got dragged in the then some asshole who's falling over behind me grabs my hair to try stay on his feet. I went to ground natch, but what the #### was he playing at?! I staggered off in pain to the bar to neck copious amounts of water.

<snip it’s too long as is but he uses lots of words to say it>