Roderick Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 This newspaper article throws a bit more light on things:The Examiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Interesting finish line... The bottom-line for us at Celebrity Examiner is Benatar and team made the right decision. In hindsight, we regret writing an article that appeared skewed one way, especially after seeing first-hand what kind of condition the stage was in. It's just a shame, really, that too many people in the press rush to get that 'skewed' story at the start, just to get the scoop on what might first look like a stroppy star's tantrum - they would not have then been in the position of having to print what is effectively a retraction and look rather foolish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The thing nobody seems to ever mention is 'trust'. So many modern products get used because we trust that processes have been carried out safely and professionally. We are usually forced to assume safety, even though many users have no ability to judge safety accurately. We don't need to be structural engineers to use trust. Let's face it, many of us have been treated by health care professionals who could have been very experienced, or solo for the first time. In this example, if out of say 40 decks, one or two were unbraced, then none of us here, with no experience of this decking system would have even bothered to go the web site and read the data. Clearly, this one is so bad that the obvious conclusion from just looking (maybe not unanimous, but convincing) is that it could be dangerous, but the people who put it up don't understand, or care about safety. This is what has caused the problem - the blatant disregard for the people on it. Why didn't these people raise all the points made at a distance. Obviously, they simply don't have access to the proper bracing, so just didn't bother - and when safety was questioned did an even worse bodge job, not to make it safer, but to convince people it was safe. I suspect we've all put something together and left out a component - without compromising the product, but this one is just crazy. As to the notion that a piece of deck is unlikely to collapse due to it's weight and size, and the need for substantial side force. Any person who used to make meccano models know just how strong or flimsy metal can be when forces get applied in unpredicted ways! I'm thinking about what would happen if the stage was holding say, a 40 strong line dancing troupe. How much energy do they put into the structure when they do one of those diagonal change direction moves where they leap sideways, hit the ground and take off back in the same direction. I've seen a routine with a lot of thi,s slide dancefloor sideways by quite a bit by the end of a 3 minute routine. Is that enough to move the deck surface sideways enough to make it collapse? I don't know - but the person erecting the stage should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Paul, you know I have said this before but for others and newbies, I would far rather run an artic and trailer over a stage made up of cardboard boxes than a kids dance troupe of 10 littlies on Steeldeck, it's easier and simpler. To combine the thread about windspeeds in Safety and this topic just Google the videos of "Tacoma Narrows" bearing in mind that winds of less than 40 mph and harmonic oscillation destroyed that permanent structure. We are talking about Temporary Demountable Structures not reinforced concrete yet some people seem to think staging is anyone's game. The idea that line dancers and changes of direction of forces would move the stage is a feasible one but if they just jumped up and down on the spot or stamped their feet in unison that unbraced stage could "walk" Add in harmonics and lateral forces and you have real trouble. All we need for there to be trust is to be confident that whoever erected or built anything followed the instruction manual. It never fails to amaze me just how many BR members do not even know there IS a manual. Especially for unitary staging. The builders do not need the technical expertise of a Giles Favell, they just need to follow the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 The thing that worries me most about this specific case is the number of levels that didn't see the problem.First there is the staging company, TMC Production, obviously didn't include the bracing when they shipped out the order - why?Then the crew who put it together. How come none of them asked the questions everyone else did? The pictures and story are doing the rounds on several Facebook and Lindedin pages and everyone is horrified. How did they manage to find a crew that couldn't see anything wrong with what they did?Venue management, why didn't they spot the problem?The promoter, wouldn't you make your way over quick smart if the act you booked called and complained about the condition of the stage.And finally, the engineer who signed off on the structure held together with battens and C-clamps. If you put that in a script for a mini series you'd be ridiculed by all and sundry.Yet here it happened - how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Another show canceled due to weather and staging concerns,this time in Sweden Please be advised, today's show in Stenungsund, Sweden has been cancelled due to issues caused by wind and the integrity of the stage structure. The fans, crew and band's safety is paramount in all decisions and unfortunately this was a necessary precaution to ensure everyone's wellbeing. http://www.totoofficial.com/news Maybe the message is slowly getting their,and the show must go on attitude slowly changing,or is it promoters etc are becoming scared of hefty law suits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 One thing I've taken note of when I've come across a few dodgey stages in the past couple of years, is people's ability to turn around and say, when I've raised my concerns about the stage, "Oh it's X's responsibility and their insurance will cover it if anything happens". That always leaves me gobsmacked and shocked that rather than hiring someone to do a proper job in the first place, they'd rather take a chance on the stage and the insurance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 ...... and of course totally wrong because insurance companies won't cover incompetence. Just think how much a premium to cover idiocy would cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Exactly, Paul, a perfect case for use of the Skewen War Cry. Run away run away! You see a hazard and do nothing then you are partially responsible in law. Run away run away! It is why I will not enter some sites and venues as a punter even. As Hippy says, things are slowly getting there on event safety, no small thanks to Jim Digby and the ESA and Roderick and the ESAA. Major North American acts are starting to say enough is enough and Scotty's death has brought it home to them big time. When an unknown local crew guy dies it might be a shame, do a benefit, but when the guy in the next berth to them on the tour bus dies it becomes scary and personal. We are all part of the solution and the village fete is as important to get right as U2 tours. This thread and BR are part of the solution. I have been to the area round Stenungsund, Hippy. Lovely, lovely place but last week the rainstorms were heavy enough to wash one of the roads away so all hail Toto for common sense. "I bless the rain but keep it down in Africa" da da dee dum dee doo doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 ...... and of course totally wrong because insurance companies won't cover incompetence. Just think how much a premium to cover idiocy would cost? Precisely! But for some reason people just don't see that. Maybe they just don't care enough at the end of the day? I don't know; all I know is that people go around thinking that insurance will sort everything out :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 Precisely! But for some reason people just don't see that. Maybe they just don't care enough at the end of the day? Sadly it just sums up today's society; make it someone else's problem.In all fairness, the insurance company will pay out any claims but will then investigate why the accident happened. Then it will chase you to the end of the earth and over it to recoup the money they forked out - with a healthy bonus for themselves. And I an going to propose this as the anthem for entertainment safety: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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