BigYinUK Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hi all The band has been talking about us all using in-ears again and I've been mulling over whether we should be looking for a "Personal Mixing System" such as the Behringer P16i so we can guarantee getting all the individual's mixes spot on. What other systems like this are there about on the market? I'm sure I saw one once where the mixer interface was driven by and iPad or Anroid device or did I dream it? Regards Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 The Behringer and the Aviom system are the only ones I'm aware of. I must admit my band are thinking of doing the same - everyone bar one is up for in-ears and we have them all ready. We're very fed up with the standard of some of the hire-in sound people, who all seem to be drummers, and despite giving them a song by song breakdown of who sings lead, they mess up constantly. Some are very good, but some just have no idea. We're even considering using my X32 on stage, and giving the PA people a L+R, and each of us doing our own monitor mixes. Normally, I'd be dead against this, but we don't play anything heavy - sixties music - BUT the vocal harmonies are tricky and we need them doing properly. Most gigs PA is provided, while only a few need us to take ours - we are now travelling in a crew bus, so we have some rear space, but not that much. Back line, mixer, a single rack, stands, cables and mics. That's about it. When we do need to take PA, it's just an amp rack and a pair of 2x15/horn cabs - we rarely take subs - no van space, and our music doesn't really need them. Losing 3 monitors will make things nicer on stage, and oddly - the drummer isn't the one objecting to IEMs, it's our guitarist - who is worried they will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 The more I look at it the more I like it as a solution. I'm a guitarist, although I play a bit of keys as well. I have to cope with an electric guitar, an acoustic and the keys plus I sing. In all the gigs I've done in my life and that definitely runs into 4 figures, I don't think I've had a "perfect" monitor mix once. Usually I can hear bugger all :( The advantage of not having to bother about monitors is considerable as you never know what sort of kit you're going to encounter at a venue, never mind the competency of the engineer to set it up right. Plus its less kit to take. The main technical disadvantage that I can see is that the unit has no reverb or fx that you can add to a channel so I'd have to live with my vocals and acoustic guitar dry which might be a bit off putting. Other than that, 1 x P16i, a P16-M for each band member, either decent earphones or a wireless IEM kit, a 16 way XLR splitter in the rack and you've got a system you can take anywhere that would interface with anything as far as I can see. For us as a band, 16 channels is not quite enough so I guess we'd have to get the engineer to send a drum mix back to one or two of the inputs. If that were the case then presumably we'd be able to use one of the 16ins for an ambient mic? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 For us as a band, 16 channels is not quite enough so I guess we'd have to get the engineer to send a drum mix back to one or two of the inputs. Or put another 1-rackspace 8 input splitter, plus a 1-rackspace 8 input (analog) mixer and submix your kit through that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 We've just started using the Behringer system at our church with our X32 and it's really good.We submix the drums to 2 channels and we also have stereo ambience (we are accompanying singing and need to hear what's going on out there).You can choose your 16 sources from just about anywhere, I think you could have a post-fx send if you needed reverb.The only problem is the technically challenged are a bit scared of it, but after a few goes and starting with a "standard" mix that is nearly right, they can manage it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 It seems to me the biggest challenge is going to be getting the feeds to / from the unit? I.e either a multiway XLR splitter that all the mics/di's go into then split one to the P16i, two to the house desk. Or some way of getting enough bus or aux sends back from the desk so you can do your personal mix? Presumably some of the mixing experts could help advise on that? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I think the intention of the P16i is to sit it next to the FOH desk and use the direct outs on the desk - which most desks have. Then a single cat5 back to the stage for the P16m's. It all becomes much more lovely with the X32 at FOH of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 I can see that. Only problem is we have to work with whatever is provided for us in house and I can see we're gonna encounter situations where there is no possibility of getting a direct out from the desk. The A&H Zed 24 we're using this weekend for example does not have it. I'm thinking about using a few passive XLR splitters and jack links from DI boxes etc would work, done from the stage end. Use an aux send or subgroup mix for the drums etc? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 ... BUT the vocal harmonies are tricky and we need them doing properly. Decades ago I read an interview with the guy that did (back in the day) the monitors for the Beach Boys. I'd guess they fit your descripotion of tricky vocal harmonies. This was well before IEMs. Anyway, he decribed a setup I've never heard anyone else say they use. He used what he called a "vocal ring", which was effectively a static subgroup mix of the vocals, and this subgroup was fed to each musician's wedge, along with whatever else they wanted. What was important was that the relative balance of the vocals was fixed, so that the vocalists could adjust the level of their vocal contribution by either singing more or less quietly, and/or moving away from the mic. It didn't say, but I guess that meant the FOH guy could pretty much leave the vocal mix static as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 There is also this system from Allen and Heath, the thing to do is use a split and process your own mix on stage with the other half of the split going to the main mixer, as with all things the only drawback is cost efficiency! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 And of course the Roland system. Link here. Most of the above are designed to be used with a specific digital mixer. Then you've got other systems like the MyMixthat are platform independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieR Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 +1 for the MyMix system. Very easy to use, platform independent as stated and good audio. The IEX-16L expanded allow you to feed 16 analogue inputs straight into the network. You need to be careful with the Network Switches you use though as some will not work. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEng Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Furman makes a good low-cost personal mixing system. The HDS6 is the send, and the HDR6 are the remote mixing stations. It uses a pair of cat 5 cables and is all analog. You get 4 independent mono mixes, and a stereo input mix that each user can mix together. The way I have my band setup is that the lead guitar and the lead guitar vocals are on 1, the rhythm guitar and lead vocals are on 2, the bass guitar and bass vocals are on 3, and the drum mix is on 4. The main L/R go into the stereo input. The remote units are in metal boxes and come with a mic clamp. Each remote can feed two headsets. The sound is really nice, and it is the least expensive personal monitoring system out there. The HDS6 is ~$250.00 while the HDR6's go for around $150.00. The system has a built in limiter. We use the Shure SE215 ear buds in my band, but it would work with any IEM buds out there. The receivers have 1/4" stereo outputs so you need a reducer to 1/8". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu00c Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Apologies for bumping this post (I've been on holiday). Another solution to throw in to the mix (pun intentional) is the new system for Pivitec which allows individuals to control their mix from an iPad / iPhone / iPod Touch. Pivitec was founded by Dan Garrett who was also one of the founders of Aviom. Have a look at the Pivitec website for more details of the product offering. Now for the declaration of interest - the company I work for, CUK Audio is the UK and Ireland distributor for Pivitec. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEng Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Apologies for bumping this post (I've been on holiday). Another solution to throw in to the mix (pun intentional) is the new system for Pivitec which allows individuals to control their mix from an iPad / iPhone / iPod Touch. Pivitec was founded by Dan Garrett who was also one of the founders of Aviom. Have a look at the Pivitec website for more details of the product offering. Now for the declaration of interest - the company I work for, CUK Audio is the UK and Ireland distributor for Pivitec. Stuart Price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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