New Lighting Desk

[Illuminatio]

Hi gang, we are an FE college looking for a new lighting desk to replace our aging but much loved Strand 300.

 

We have a small studio theatre, 36 dimmers (I'd like 48), various LED pars, couple of moving heads, waggly mirrors, fog machines, etc.

 

The priority is something we can train students and apprentices on, which will teach marketable skills on current technology.

 

I have a few ideas, but am interested to know what people will suggest.

 

Budget, ah yes... budget. I'd quite like an Ion, but don't think we can afford it, so round about the £5k mark.

[paulears]

Me personally, I'd go down the Chamsys route with a MagicQ, and even though you could have a hardware version, you could get a maxi wing, plus extra wings, big touch screens etc - as this would educationally offer you more scope, and if you are thinking BTEC, then with the system running on any old computer, you could build loads of assignment work around it - everyone working on a project at home or in college, then seeing their design actually work on the one connected to lights. Plenty of these around nowadays, and easy to use, move around and connect. The Ion would have been good, but I think you get more bang for your bucks with something that can be modular.

[LXbydesign]

Totally agree with Paul here.

 

You could get a PC wing - which would give you the encoder wheels for the wiggly control and also then afford another fader wing and touch screen monitor.

Quite frankly, thats all you need. Hell, you could even just get a simple laptop dedicated only to running the program.

 

As a BTEC prod. tutor myself - thats excatly what I do. I get the students to plan and design their rig on magicQ at home on their pc. Put in all the patch etc etc - save the show on a stick, bring it in to the academy and then they fire it up on the rig for real and off they go.

 

Totally expandable system to be as small or as big as you like. Much better than just being stuck with one desk.

 

One student even saved up and bought a mini-wing!! So if he's running a show I just put out the DMX line for him and a bit of mains and he sorts himself out.

[paulears]

I also like the idea that with an extra wing or two - multiple students can have a hand in a real show. Each can have a cluster of faders doing different things. One of the things in the BTEC spec are certain requirements that each student has to do - put in deliberately to try to put a stop to group work where grades get shared, and in actuality, the good grades from one student get shared by the weaker ones. So because each panel really is in control and separate, then assessing the success can be done separately. Two students at one desk always share buttons and this can be very difficult to isolate. A single control, therefore is more difficult to assess on than proper split controls.

[Illuminatio]

Thank you for the feedback. I had been considering Chamsys and had emailed today to try to organise a demo as the company is fairly local to us.

[mrboo]

If you want a hardware route like what you are used to you want to look at Zero 88 Jester ML48 that gives you 48 channels and upto 30 movers http://zero88.com/products/jester-ml48

 

There lots of smaller venues now using this desk.But I would say also get a computer system with Linux and magic q so you can show more then one way of working as it too easy to point along one way of working but when in the field you will find many systems. try training on many systems as this will help them lots.

[jonhole]

If you want a hardware route like what you are used to you want to look at Zero 88 Jester ML48 that gives you 48 channels and upto 30 movers http://zero88.com/products/jester-ml48

 

I imagine the OP will miss the syntax control with this console. There is the Jester TL Xtra available in the Jester Range, which has syntax control, however I imagine that coming from a Stand 300, the OP might want more functionality.

 

The most suitable replacement from the Zero 88 range would be the ORB XF, with fader per channel control, up to 60 physical submasters per page and syntax which strand users instantly find familiar.

[paulears]

Not sure Jon - a visit to my old college last week (first in 8 years) found one of your nice,large green beast in their control room - lots of your dimmers and being used one fader per channel. 6 movers in flight cases and a 300 control in the store, deemed too complicated. They had robbed the castors off the flight cases, so it wasn't all money wasted. I think we're all guilty of making technical things too complicated, and trying to mimic some kind of industry standard of practice and process, when the rules - which Ofsted inspected schools and colleges are beaten over the head to follow, are the very simple stuff in the qualification specs, that once met, don't have to be revisited. So the phrase "must have access to during the delivery period of this qualification" means very little. A four channel mirror scan, with pan/tilt/gobo and colour, hooked up to four faders on a Frog that can be recorded snapshot style allows the criteria to be met - AND - if they do it with no help, following instructions, LD style (up a bit, down a bit - grteat, now make it green and splodgy) will probably generate a Distinction in many schools and colleges. In truth, the quest for industry standard kit and practice actually comes from knowledgeable staff who think it essential, not from exam boards, management and Ofsted. All a dance or drama teacher wants lighting to do is come up and go down at the right time. Somebody who does a drama degree and wants to be a teacher probably has no knowledge of lighting at all - and when clever lighting is available via a teacher or technician, the honest truth is that it rarely improves grades, and that is the only thing teachers MUST do - everything else is optional. Clever stuff is viewed as something you do at uni once you specialise, and schools and colleges generalise. In BTEC the list of production units includes some amazing ones. Some have never been delivered to students even once. In sheer quantity data - compared with Musical Theatre and Dance, lighting and sound are absolutely tiny in takeup, hence why they are easy meat for cost cutting and content removal. My pro stance for BTEC at Level 2 has gone. Somebody in an office went through the specs they paid me to write and cut, copied and pasted to remove half the content. In one unit a 'sound' task appeared in the middle of lighting - and nobody noticed. I really can't say any longer that spending on industry standard equipment makes any sense. Lofty aim, but unappreciated.

 

Jon mentions functionality - There's no need, time or any reason to spend this kind of money any more. Uni, yes - but school and college, sadly no. Nice to have for the staff. of course.

[Brian]

...something we can train students and apprentices on, which will teach marketable skills on current technology.

 

Ah, but assuming they manage to find a job in the industry, how many of them will end up working on 'current technology'?

 

Surely it's better to teach the basic of lighting desk operation than how to operate today's fad.

 

Whilst computer+wing is probably today's big thing, there are a huge number of fader-per-channel plus submaster desks out there in daily use. Plus Strand style theatre stacks, several versions of the command line and some very 'unique' desks.

[Illuminatio]

Thanks Brian, if I want to teach the basics I've always got a Strand 100 in another space (and we used to have a Strand LC).

 

Paul, of course we're only getting it for the staff ;) - if they want fader per dimmer I've got a single channel Anytronix DMX tester.

 

Jon, sadly after years of traumatic Zero88 experiences I swore I would never buy another of their desks.

 

(Mind you - I've had fun and games with Strand; remember the M24? Laugh (or crash) a minute)

[ianknight]

...something we can train students and apprentices on, which will teach marketable skills on current technology.

 

Ah, but assuming they manage to find a job in the industry, how many of them will end up working on 'current technology'?

 

Surely it's better to teach the basic of lighting desk operation than how to operate today's fad.

 

Whilst computer+wing is probably today's big thing, there are a huge number of fader-per-channel plus submaster desks out there in daily use. Plus Strand style theatre stacks, several versions of the command line and some very 'unique' desks.

 

Brian, you've said pretty much what I always thought about teaching Lighting operation but sadly, I mostly hear from folk these days "Oh it has to be an ETC Ion because everyone has an Ion - it's the standard desk" even more sadly, I hear it from colleges teaching performing arts with an element of technical 'knowhow'. Surely it's far better to be able to demonstrate basic principles using fader per channel and how to finesse a lighting state and then work up from there to more complex controls?

 

Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences with Zero88 Illuminatio - I've generally found the kit to be very reliable and robust (at least I don't get to see much of it to repair from abuse), I've recently inspected and checked 96 ways of Contour that I spec'd and installed 16 years ago and that had been mothballed for 3 years - they worked first time!

 

Some of the earlier Zero88 'large' desks could be a challenge to get used to, the first time I sat in front of a Sirius 500 was a challenge! I'd be so bold as to say, PM Jon and ask for a 1 to 1 demo of Solution (or ORB) and I think you'll be surprised how much things have moved on and how useable the software is.

[Ashley R]

Also, the customer support from Zero 88 is absolutely amazing, even when your on the other side of the world, they are ore than happy to help with any issues you have. They are well priced, and they generally cover all the basics, whilst also providing something a little more advanced off to the side.

 

The route using Chamsys is interesting, as you can start with a super basic wing, and then as people progress through the course, pull out more and more features. Also from memory you can change the layout of MagicQ to mimic other consoles layout and methods of working/syntax?

(not a MagicQ user, just info that I have picked up along the way)

[matthardingsls]

Shame to hear that budget wont stretch to an ION Nick.

 

 

The MagicQ desks are pretty tasty mind so they are worth conisidering!

 

Weve had one at the Regis and it was pretty impressive/ User Freindly.

 

Have you looked at the ETC element?

 

I dont know much about it myself but I do know that they run the same OS as the ion.

 

 

Hope all is going well mate.

 

Matt

[mac500]

The element is fiddly with movers. I suggest looking at the orb/ orb xf from zero 88. It's got a lot of features on it which are excellent for the money plus really good support from zero. I regularly use one and have done a couple of bigs shows on it.

[Just Some Bloke]

Can I suggest the SmartFade ML from ETC? It's REALLY easy to use - 24 faders which can be channels 1-24, channels 25-48, device intensities or paramaters (though there's encoders too) plus 24 device selector buttons which can also be groups and/or pallettes. There is a stack with everything you need on it and speed of programming is very quick (just a couple of button pushes to do pretty much everything). You can hook it up to a PC with the free software, allowing you to see anythig you want on the monitor screen. Most importantly for a school, anyone knowing nothing and coming to it, turning it on and pushing up a fader WILL get light out!

 

Oh, and you'll get plenty of change for your budget. :)