Counterweight Fly System Training

[kerry davies]

Craig, this post is not aimed at you but is to remind BR members of the realities of human development.

My link

 

When I was young I was exposed to all sorts of things that current teenagers should not be allowed. When my father was 14 he was down the pit which would have been out of the question for me. As time progresses in our culture everybody matures later and boys are not accepted as fully neurologically mature today until nearly 30 years of age. They haven't always got the mental equipment to make reliably sensible decisions.

 

Of course there will be exceptions but we have to make the guidelines on the mass not the few. However "mature" or competent young people believe themselves to be "common sense" demands that we care a bit more for the young than ever before. Age restrictions such as "no climbing for under 18's" are arbitrary but understandable. Competence demands practice and practice demands time, teenagers very rarely have had the time to acquire it.

 

As for hemp and the law, LOLER etc only refer back to HASAWA and the law there states you have a duty of care to yourself and those around you. Unless you can demonstrate that duty of care to yourself, competence in what you do, it stops right there. Working with others is completely out of the question.

 

Craig, volunteer to shadow the flymen, ask for any work that gives you access to watch professional practitioners and try to learn. I am still learning when nearly 4 times your age. You are just in the blocks, wait for the gun.

[Craig SM]

Thanks Kerry Much appreciated!

[top-cat]

If they want actually certification for flying training, then they are going to have great difficulty. The only people who could offer practical training would be the venues themselves. even the manufacturers don't keep full sized working versions of their own kit - not many warehouses have the height and width. Any certified training would therefore be simulations, and practically useless!

 

That's pretty much what my first post said! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

 

The other thing to remember is that since most counterweight systems have been installed in theatres over a wide time period, each one will have it's own individual personalities. In the same way that if you are using automated winch systems in your theatre (be that, Stage Technologies Acrobat, Kinesys K2, etc etc) you need to learn the specifics of each counterweight systems. Almost every counterweight installation I've ever used has had an individual personality with slightly different things to other C/W systems. So for each theatre you work in it is not unwise to spend time getting used to that system, as well as learning the general operation of the type of system itself.

 

Thanks guys I agree with top-cat I am just an enthusiastic person which all I want to do is put my skills to use, pointless sitting round the house when I could be gaining more experience in 'Professional theatres".

 

Sorry for causing any inconvenience and upset!

 

Don't worry, you've not inconvenienced or upset anyone here.

 

But the people you want to work for (the people who matter) - well it may be wise not to upset them, and walking around their new theatre telling them you know it all and they know nothing, when you're a 17 year old with a couple of school plays under your belt... that will upset them and it's best not to do it.

[WiLL]

Be prepared to do anything they ask you to do, even if it's sweeping the stage (even when I'm an SM in charge of a large crew, I still take my turn at sweeping and mopping the stage)

 

 

Slightly off-topic but I have to say when I'm stage-managing I'm more likely to take the broom away from crew members and do it myself, because that way it gets done right :P

I'm a little anal when it comes to sweeping and after watching one cassie 'sweeping' with one hand whilst on the phone in the other and staring up into the grid as he wandered around aimlessly on stage randomly moving bits of dirt from one area to another I tend to take a 'do it yourself' attitude.

[Ynot]

Slightly off-topic but I have to say when I'm stage-managing I'm more likely to take the broom away from crew members and do it myself, because that way it gets done right :P

I'm a little anal when it comes to sweeping and after watching one cassie 'sweeping' with one hand whilst on the phone in the other and staring up into the grid as he wandered around aimlessly on stage randomly moving bits of dirt from one area to another I tend to take a 'do it yourself' attitude.

In that case, and with the utmost respect, you're failing in the second part of your job title...

 

The 'management' part.

 

If your venue/company is employing the casuals to do the job, and that job includes sweeping the stage properly, then it's your job to manage the problem. If they're just inexperienced at sweeping then show them the correct way. If they're incompetent, then that suggests a lack of general aptitude for ANYTHING, to be blunt, so kick them out the door and don't ask them back!

 

If they are on the phone, then implement something that a few venues I know of have - no phones in use on stage. If they're chatting to their mates, then step in and wave a firm hand and point out that they're there to do the job, not prattle. chat can and should wait for actual downtime, or even thr crew room.

 

If, however, you're managing amateurs..... Well, that's a different set of disciplines and methods...

[top-cat]

Ynot is bang on the mark. If I was the kind of stagehand who is more interested in yapping on the phone than doing the job, and you (will) did that... Id get my phone out every time you gave me a dump job. The hands will soon realise that if they do a job badly enough, you'll do it for them, and they don't have to do chores any more. They can do the fun stuff to the best of their ability and the boring stuff to the worst of their ability and eventually they'll only have to do fun stuff. A casual reminder that they are there to work not to yap on the phone should be sufficient, obviously this is easier in theatres who pay their crew. A lot of young people have been brought up thinking they are for one reason or another exempt from chores. They can do all the fun stuff and clearing up afterwards is somebody else's problem. As a stage manage you need to end that belief and get them working else they will take you for a ride. You probably couldn't get away with it anymore but my first theatre had a rule that once we'd swept the stage, the SM would get his brush and have a sweep around. Any dirt he could sweep into a pan (agreed by you prior to inspection as being empty) would be emptied in between 2 slices of buttered bread so you could eat it. With that rule in hand there was never a problem getting people to clean the stage properly.

[paulears]

lovely idea Top Cat, but sadly, with more and more venues moving to annualised hours for a small cadre of permanent salaried staff, you do find these key people doing the sweeping and housekeeping jobs because they want them done properly, and even worse, many people new to the industry feel that they are NOT stagehands, they are stage technicians, and this means sweeping the floor isn't their job - and if made to do it, do it quickly and less well than most of us know it needs to be. I myself often do the 'menial' jobs myself, because it's a better use of available resources. X is very quick and effective with DMX distribution, Z is less so. Cables need running and the stage needs sweeping, time is short - does it matter if Z is the boss and X is the keen,but very green tech head? I'm afraid the old pyramid heirarchy is less relevant. The novel of idea of making them eat dirt is great, until one takes you court. To do this you need a great permanent team, and now the constantly rotating casuals make this kind of team ethic very difficult.

 

You also have the problem that not every venue has unlimited casuals on the list - so if you want to keep them, do you make them sweep the floor?

 

I know that they should, but is that best management practice. I don't necessarily think so.

 

As for phones - I think many venues have decided that if they are on silent, they're ok. If it's ok for a member of the crew to read a newspaper, read a book, then why can't they Google or facebook? As long as they can do their job, what's the issue? Rather than lose the majority of the crew to the crewroom until the next cue, I'd rather have them in the corner on their phone - sorry.

 

I used to think differently, but now things have evolved a bit.

[erroneousblack]

 

As for phones - I think many venues have decided that if they are on silent, they're ok. If it's ok for a member of the crew to read a newspaper, read a book, then why can't they Google or facebook? As long as they can do their job, what's the issue? Rather than lose the majority of the crew to the crewroom until the next cue, I'd rather have them in the corner on their phone - sorry.

 

I used to think differently, but now things have evolved a bit.

 

I never allow phones on stage, with the exception of a dedicated member of full time staff to be use as an ICE number. At the moment I'm crewing in the WE, during the busiest scene change, there are 5 crew, 4 dressers, 2 wig, 4 SM and sound. You can guarentee I'm the only one with his phone not on him, but I'm not the boss. At one rehearsal one of the dressers actually finished her texting before starting the quick change, then couldn't see what she'd done wrong when we had to reset and do it all again! Also Paul I was always trained to get off the stage as soon as your done, and don't come back till you're needed again.

[Ynot]

As for phones - I think many venues have decided that if they are on silent, they're ok. If it's ok for a member of the crew to read a newspaper, read a book, then why can't they Google or facebook? As long as they can do their job, what's the issue? Rather than lose the majority of the crew to the crewroom until the next cue, I'd rather have them in the corner on their phone - sorry.

Don't (personally) have a problem with using (silent) phones in down time, but my point was aimed at those in the original post where the crew might be on the phone when they're supposed to be concentrating on what they are actually there for.

[Gareth A]

 

As for phones - I think many venues have decided that if they are on silent, they're ok. If it's ok for a member of the crew to read a newspaper, read a book, then why can't they Google or facebook? As long as they can do their job, what's the issue? Rather than lose the majority of the crew to the crewroom until the next cue, I'd rather have them in the corner on their phone - sorry.

 

I used to think differently, but now things have evolved a bit.

 

I never allow phones on stage, with the exception of a dedicated member of full time staff to be use as an ICE number. At the moment I'm crewing in the WE, during the busiest scene change, there are 5 crew, 4 dressers, 2 wig, 4 SM and sound. You can guarentee I'm the only one with his phone not on him, but I'm not the boss. At one rehearsal one of the dressers actually finished her texting before starting the quick change, then couldn't see what she'd done wrong when we had to reset and do it all again! Also Paul I was always trained to get off the stage as soon as your done, and don't come back till you're needed again.

 

 

Totally agree with this. Ok - I usually have mine, but as a CSM I always keep it just in case. One show I did years ago where I was just a CM, there were annoyed cast members because they could see them texting and playing games. Granted on silent. They say its distracting all the lights and stuff in the dark wings. Ok - so no more phones. Onto books. Of course - dark wings, so the crew sit near the entrances to the stage. Of course - that was also bad because they were in direct view. Didnt help that the stage wasnt masked 100% (nature of the show design). So in the end. Nothing. No phones - no books. Just concentrate on the show.

 

I have to say I do prefer the no book and no phone rule. Concentration. "Most" follow spot operators cant read or text. Certainly not in busy shows anyway. If you cant concentrate on your job for just 2 1/2 hours without checking Facebook then maybe time for a career change. Before mobiles were invented we never required that. So why change!? Theres nothing worse than someone who is concentrating more on their phone / book than their actual job.

 

Im sure you wont see a paramedic checking Facebook or texting a mate whilest treating a patient or something!

[alistermorton]

If you cant concentrate on your job for just 2 1/2 hours without checking Facebook then maybe time for a career change.

 

I do worry about the psychological dependence some people have on their facebbook/twitter updates. You see people literally fixated on their smart phones - Facehooked we call it.

 

 

 

[top-cat]

lovely idea Top Cat, but sadly, with more and more venues moving to annualised hours for a small cadre of permanent salaried staff, you do find these key people doing the sweeping and housekeeping jobs because they want them done properly, and even worse, many people new to the industry feel that they are NOT stagehands, they are stage technicians, and this means sweeping the floor isn't their job - and if made to do it, do it quickly and less well than most of us know it needs to be. I myself often do the 'menial' jobs myself, because it's a better use of available resources. X is very quick and effective with DMX distribution, Z is less so. Cables need running and the stage needs sweeping, time is short - does it matter if Z is the boss and X is the keen,but very green tech head? I'm afraid the old pyramid heirarchy is less relevant. The novel of idea of making them eat dirt is great, until one takes you court. To do this you need a great permanent team, and now the constantly rotating casuals make this kind of team ethic very difficult.

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I do agree that many of the new guys don't feel that they are obliged to do the bone jobs and yes that can lead to them losing interest quickly. And I agree, If you're relying on volunteers, you have to, to a reasonable degree, ensure they have fun because if they are not having fun then they will not come back. I do however think it's a reasonably naive approach to take. When people really want to do something, they will tak the rough with the smooth and the people you think are going to disappear once you start dishing out chores often have high ambitions and once they see that there is only one route to the top their attitude can change. What is the importance of a clean stage? Do they understand this? If not then of course they won't put the effort in. What is the danger of being on the phone in a working theatre? Do they understand this? If not... You get the idea. I find that often educating and creating a true understanding can change attitudes.the other thing of course is if you let these young guys just go straight in with the fun stuff without the graft then they will never appreciate it. They will take it for granted. Creating a coveted status on a position can inspire people to work hard to reach that position. Gifting he position to somebody because they walk through the door demanding it does not create that coveted status and succeeding stagehands will not view those positions in aspiration but only in expectation. I firmly believe that if you can properly educate your casuals on the reasons why we do chores and the reasons we dont slack off on Facebook during work; and further create positions of pride and desire in the theatre above the starting ranks, you can give formerly expectational casuals the drive needed to start low and work up. Allowing them to take the I want approach only legitimises it and leads the others to follow, and the problem will never go away.

 

 

Apologies if there's some dodgy formatting going on I'm using an iPad with 'IPBBuddy' and it seems to be a bit strange.

Moderation: I've edited it out - made it look very odd html tags don't work

[paulears]

The often moaned about unfairness of using certain casuals all the time, and other less so often boils down to exactly this - technical prowess on it's own is not the be all and end all.

[Ynot]

Back on topic, it may be worth the OP considering the recent court case in Belgium...

[slipstream]

The theatre in question that the OP refers to hasn't done it's first live show with the counterweight system yet, the place is that new and I imagine the regulars are still finding their feet with it never mind letting a kid play with it.