ojc123 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Lighting isn't really my thing but I may have the option to get some old Patt123 lanterns for not much. They'll need serviced,rewired and tested etc but I'm ok with that. (They have 0.75mm2 pvc flex on at present, a 13A fuse and sport green stickers. Yes, I know.) Lamps. I've looked at the Strand Archive and the original lamps were T1. I see these are still available. T17 is stated here as an alternative. Is the T17 an alternative to the T1?If it is an alternative then which is better?If it isn't an alternative then is there an alternative which is an improvement on the T1? I don't really want to get into converting the bases. I'm certainly not going into this business, even though it's tempting. I'm looking at cost/benefits as to whether I'll bother to get the lanterns. If I can make it into a reasonably cheap option then I'll have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafferted Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It depends what you mean by cheap. Given that these seem to be going (unrestored/polished) for prices in the region of £100 on fleabay you might do well to flog them and pick up some Minuettes or the likes which can be had for around £35 each. T17 is a direct halogen replacement for the T1, as is T28 which is brighter but with less life than T17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojc123 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 T17 is a direct halogen replacement for the T1, as is T28 which is brighter but with less life than T17Thanks, that's the bit I wondered about. I'll consider all the options before I decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 According to SE http://www.stage-electrics.co.uk/product.aspx?code=500-7125 17 and 24 are same, not sure what the difference between 24 and 28 is. I Vaguely remember being told that the differences are filament distribution/amount. Not sure how correct this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktaylor Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The problem with the cheaper T1 is the cap often breaks loose from the bulb. I stopped supplying them years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojc123 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 The problem with the cheaper T1 is the cap often breaks loose from the bulb. I stopped supplying them years agoThat's why I'm looking for an alternative if I use them at all. I thought I remembered the T1 bulb coming free from the cap but wasn't sure. I think I'll have a go at a couple of them since all it'll cost is a lamp and a bit of time. Things are a bit quiet this month because it's the exam season.Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Although 13 amp plugs are not much used in theatre lighting, there is nothing actually wrong or unsafe in fitting 13 amp plugs to these or most other theatre lanterns.0.75 flex is fine for a load of a little over 2 amps, even on a 13 amp fuse, though a 5 amp fuse might be better practice.The green stickers are probably PAT test stickers, it is good practice to test all portable electrical equipment, including theatre lanterns, regularly. This should be recorded as having been done, and one of the easiest ways is to affix a suitable sticker. As regards Lamps either the tradditional, non halogen or the newer halogen lamp may be used. The halogen one should be brighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 0.75 flex is fine for a load of a little over 2 amps... You probably missed this bit... ...pvc flex on at present... Which is far from OK for something that runs so hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Agree, 0.75mm flex is fine for the electrical load, but unless of some non standard high temperature type is most unsuitable for the heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojc123 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks, Adam2. I'm quite aware that 0.75mm2 is capable of carrying 6A. 13A plugs are fine too even though they aren't standard in theatres. It's the 13A FUSE with 6A flex that's the issue. I certainly wouldn't put green stickers on an item with 6A flex and a 13A fuse.I'm also aware that pvc flex is not suited for this application and it'll be replaced with silicone flex. I just mentioned it because I know how Blue-Roomers do love a bit of dodgy wiring and lackadaisical PAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I do know that if some came up at a sensible price, I'd buy them! Much nicer light than a minuette, and a genuinely useful bit of lighting kit. Couldn't care less about the age. A 123 with a set of barndoors does the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern123 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 123's are truly beautiful bits of kit, you won't be sorry if you can get them cheap, the T1 Lamp is the best one to use IMHO - yes the globe can detach from the base after use when you are trying to change lamps, but as long as you are aware, that's not really an issue. The light output is wonderful, and never bettered in terms of tone and softness. They are also basically indestructible. I wouldn't go for the Halogen lamp, it makes the output harsher and makes the whole unit run too hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I wouldn't go for the Halogen lamp, it makes the output harsher and makes the whole unit run too hot.Wattage for wattage, a unit with a halogen lamp will run no hotter than a 'normal' lamp. In fact, as a halogen lamp converts more of the incoming Watts into light it'll actually run cooler (admittedly by a very very small amount). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianknight Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 123's are truly beautiful bits of kit, you won't be sorry if you can get them cheap, the T1 Lamp is the best one to use IMHO - yes the globe can detach from the base after use when you are trying to change lamps, but as long as you are aware, that's not really an issue. The light output is wonderful, and never bettered in terms of tone and softness. They are also basically indestructible. I wouldn't go for the Halogen lamp, it makes the output harsher and makes the whole unit run too hot. Sadly, the T1 was discontinued from manufacture about 4 or 5 years or so ago, I think (but someone will prove me differently) that they fell foul of the EU directive that's caused the end of 'old style' 60w filament lamps. If you find any on shelves or in store cupboards then cherish them dearly and keep them safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I doubt that the T1 was discontinued as a result of any EU directive since lamps for specialist purposes , including theatres, are exempt.If production HAS been discontinued then I expect that this was simply due to decling demand.Electric lamp manufacture is becoming concentrated in fewer and fewer, larger companies. This is tending to kill of many lamps for which demand is limited. That said though I thought that T1s are still readily available which suggests either continued manufacture or only a very recent ceasation of manufacture. I cant say that 0.75mm flex for a small fixed load on a 13 amp fuse would worry me,Overload is effectively impossible, and a short circuit will blow the 13 amp fuse before the 0.75mm flex gets hot.Many d0m3stic appliances come with 0.75mm flex and 13 amp fuses fitted.Most of the rest of the world uses 0.75mm appliance flexes on unfused plugs on 15, 16, or 20 amp circuits, and no one worries about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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