Andrew Edwards Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 This report is insane.How the LA could authorise the whole thing after last year AND advise the public to wear PPE is crazy.Celebrating it as a drop in incident too. WTF! :o :blink: And then a reported 'freak' firework accident caused a mass explosion. The BBC report makes no mention of a 'banger' hitting the climbing frame which appears in the local reports. OR the fact that a rocket hit a young girl in the face earlier in the display. I suspect that there were professionals at the event because not all the guys 'holding the splint' completely ran for their lives. If you follow the youtube link within the article, the person with the camera gets quite a near miss... They do look to be about the distance away too. *shakes head* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerJonny Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 While I understand the risks of fireworks and pyrotechnics, and the associated feelings that things like this just shouldn't happen, I feel I should stick my neck out for Lewes Bonfire. I've attended the celebrations for several years, since I attended college in Lewes, and feel the need to point out that this is less a bonfire display, and more a great tradition for the people of Lewes and the surrounding Area. The whole town is involved, and the place is shut down with boarded-up windows and massive levels of preparation each year. I'd see it more in the way you might see the running of the bulls in Spain, cheese rolling in Gloucestershire or other similar events. It's dangerous, but that is the nature of the event, and if you attend, you agree to that. The LA in Lewes advise visitors from out of town to stick away, as they want to enable the tradition to carry on for the townspeople. They also attempt to keep those who do attend anyway safe, and while I wouldn't expect many people to turn up wearing goggles, the fact they are advising it shows the public that they are exposing themselves to possible injury by attending. That said, there was a heavy crackdown this year on fireworks and rookies being set off by people marching, and it was noticeably effective. Lewes is far from an average Bonfire night, and while it's always terrible to see injuries, those attending hopefully know what to expect. It's by far the most spectacular celebration of the 5th November I know of, and the public displays after the processions are always (from what I've seen anyway) carried out in a safe and controlled manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 ...a rocket hit a young girl in the face earlier in the display. I suspect that there were professionals at the event...Very few professionals use rockets any more. If any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 The Lewes thing looks fantastic. As mentioned earlier, it's just another British cultural flingback to bygone days. The only risk I see is that people could go to that with the sole intent of firing fireworks at people in malice. Particularly given it's anti-catholic theme. (They burn an effigy of the Pope.) As far as the community firework incident goes, that looks like it was down to the storage of the unused fireworks without protection against accidental ignition. Stuff like that should all be secured and covered before the show. I'm sure that some "professional" pyrotechnicians will get their oar in here. Y'know.... The ones who use unpaid labour to put in their shows.... <_< I'm sure that some jobless career-claimant will get their pet lawyer to sue the organisers. Then it'll be really safe next year because there won't be any fireworks. And people can safely sit in front of their televisions or watch other peoples fireworks from a great distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Regarding Bonfire in Lewes - unless you've ever actually experienced it, it's impossible to truly comprehend what it really is. I lived just outside Lewes for a couple of years while working at Glyndebourne, and was able to experience Bonfire at first-hand. It defies description, and is firmly rooted in ancient tradition. The whole town, and the bonfire societies, make it quite clear that the whole thing is organised by and for the town, and that outsiders and visitors are actively discouraged from coming to Lewes on the 5th. They are very much of the opinion that "it's our event, and if anyone doesn't like it they can f*ck off". Anyone who attends is deemed to have accepted the risks involved - and anyone who isn't able to deal with those risks (as well as the possible offence which may be caused by some of the imagery they might encounter as part of the processions and bonfires!) would be very foolish to spend the evening of 5th November in Lewes! It would be a very brave (or, more likely, very stupid) council H&S officer who tried to stop the societies running things in their own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sure, they blow the Pope up, but at least they do it on an orchestrated manner and in style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 There's a similar festival to the Lewes thing that I've been to a few times - Festa Major in Sitges. They make human towers (putting the smallest children at the top) http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/58913_1611954545251_2467218_n.jpg and they put catherine wheels on puppet type things and run them through the crowds http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/58420_1611955625278_5158487_n.jpg Watch this from 1:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Surely throwing fireworks and using them in ways not advised by the manufacturers is stupid and should be treated like any firearm offence? I don't think the event does really compare to bull running. Bull running is not actually as dangerous to the spectator as it might seem (certainly not in comparison to a firework throwing competition). A bit of common sense and good awareness will go a long way to help keeping one safe from bulls. You can see them and predict to a reasonable extent where they are going and what they are doing. Try doing that with a bunch of errant fireworks wizzing down a street! Dodging bullets would be easier, given they largely go in a straight line. Fireworks, even when used well within known safety margins can go astray and be unpredictable. I love fireworks, but heaven's sake they MUST be treated with the respect they demand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjb Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 As a general point... why should fireworks incidents be treated as firearms incidents? Nothing in common. As a specific point... don't like the idea of Lewes? Don't bloody go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Don't bloody go.I agree; to a point. A bunch of mates want to race superbikes around the M25 at 150mph; You don't like the idea? Don't bloody go! Same argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjb Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Same argument?Not really. That would be illegal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Cunningham Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 And then a reported 'freak' firework accident caused a mass explosion. The BBC report makes no mention of a 'banger' hitting the climbing frame which appears in the local reports. OR the fact that a rocket hit a young girl in the face earlier in the display. I suspect that there were professionals at the event because not all the guys 'holding the splint' completely ran for their lives. If you follow the youtube link within the article, the person with the camera gets quite a near miss... They do look to be about the distance away too. *shakes head* I would hope there were no professionals at that display. As Brian has said professional companies don't use rockets (which are mostly Cat3) , we would use shells instead (which are Cat4 and not available to the general public). There were far too many people in the firing site. As it was handfiring I would expect no more than 2 people lighting (preferably only one) witheverbody else back at the safety distance. If you need to handfire more material than 2 people can manage then you should be electically firing. We rarely handfire Cat4 material now Without knowing the details of the overal site layout and the safety distances (the fence line didn't seem overly close from the footage) and how the fireworks were laid out it's not fair to condemn the organisers (they have successfully run a display at that site for many years). There is nothing wrong with a well-organised, safely run community fireworks display, this will hopefully be a wakeup call that will lead to safer displays but not the loss of community events But it does reinforce the fact that fireworks can be very dangerous. Handled correctly and with the correct safety measures in place they are relatively safe and even a failure should not create a hazardous situation if your safety distances are correct. The most likely causes of injury with fireworks are manual handling, hitting youself (or someone else) with a sledgehammer when pinning racks, cold weather etc not the material itself. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Edwards Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Regarding Oxgangs, perhaps professionals was the wrong choice. Experienced...I would also like to say at this point that the reports have changed to the girl being hit the face during the mass explosion and not before. With Lewes, I'd just like to clarify that it is the parade rather than the whole event that I was amazed at. I'm all for tradition and celebration but I'm not sure I am comfortable with the stay away if you don't understand control measure. It's one thing to warn people that they are in the splash zone at a sealife park and another to say you're in the horrible burns/potential blinding zone at a bonfire parade. I see no difference between changing the tradition of Lewes bonfire from being a random and sporadic 'riot' to a more organised and scheduled event and replacing some of the other traditions like bird scarers to safer equivalents. On a more positive note I have heard stories of averted incidents at other displays. Aborted starts due to persons penetrating exclusion zones for example. But then these were all cat4 pro shows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Not really. That would be illegal...And maiming someone by throwing a firework/birdscarer is what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Lewes is like Ottery Tar Barrels, Up Helly Aa and Cheese Rolling in that what was local rowdyism has become a tourist attraction with all the problems that the average tourist (idiot) brings. They are all local community events with their own traditions, rules and limits and they all state quite clearly that the visitor is accepted but only on the local's terms. Ottery end their safety blurb by saying that the rollers spend a year preparing and can get irritated at the proximity of tourists causing them risk. In short; "Get within arms length, expect a thumping." If visitors to Lewes cannot get their heads around the fact that it is not a "performance" for their benefit then that is just tough. If they cannot read the local authority advice to keep children well away from the town that, too, is tough. Lewes is a milksop English version of Las Fallas and that really is dangerous but there is no way I would wish to tone it down. It is their town, their gig and if I go, I go on their terms. ... the annual Fallas fiesta is the closest they'll ever get to something resembling a war zone ... every year casualties are hauled over the heads of the impenetrable crowds and delivered into the care of waiting Red Cross teams. Displays are an entirely different kettle of fish and there is HSG123 and HSG124 that should be followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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