Unused equipment

[michael]

Hi guys,

 

I have recently become the Performing Arts Technician in a secondary school, the school hasn't had a technician in over a year so had been relying on the students to run productions.

Since sorting cables and checking over equipment I have come across lots of equipment that is unused and to be honest I really don't know who brought it and why it was brought!

 

I spoke to the head of performing arts about selling this equipment to fund some basic equipment like microphones and mic stands that the school is currently lacking and she agreed that it was a good idea and she would speak to the finance department.

The finance department have said that we are not allowed to sell the equipment, I'm not sure why this is and I am going to find why this is tomorrow.

I don't think I am going to be able to get them to change their decision and just wondered if any other school performing arts technicians have had this type of issue?

 

I obviously don't want to annoy anybody as I have only been working at the school for a month, but can't see any reason why we couldn't sell the equipment providing it is in a safe condition and had been PAT tested, especially when the money could fund basic equipment that we need.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Michael

[DeepSpacePenguin]

What sort of equipment is it? That might be part of the reason.

[Jivemaster]

Among many other reasons, the school may not own the equipment, it may be on a private finance arrangement where kit is supplied and leased to the school for several years, this may or may not become school property after a long period. Though this does happen it may not be your site's reasoning.

[the kid]

Check the finance policy for value loss (cant think of the right word). Our one has something like 3 years on IT 5 years on small items (tools etc) 7 years rooming (furniture and such).

 

This is dependent on HOW it was bought, if we buy items through capital (£1000+) it is expected to last several years, with minor upgrades (lamps in projectors etc).

 

So once x item hits x years to college it becomes valueless and can be sold, however if I wanted to sell of a 2 year old projector that is still very much working I would be told where to go.

[paulears]

I had an identical circumstance - the finance systems cannot cope with finance streams suddenly generating income, the systems just weren't designed that way. I actually got really told off once for making a budget positive rather than negative - they really were serious. In the end, I cheated the system, and sold the stuff we wanted to get rid of, and paid the money into our box office account, which was set up to have a positive balance. I then raised an order off that account for the new kit. Six months later, I got the bolocking and a strict instruction to not do it again. Daft, but how education budgets work.

[Jivemaster]

There is NO logic to purchasing in establishments, don't look for any.

 

A friend had budget for a "mixer" (audio or video I don't recall) BUT he only had it for two weeks so his choice was limited to what the dealer had in stock and he ended up with something WAY OTT for the job and very expensive, had it taken three weeks his budget would have expired. He wasn't even allowed to part exchange items.

 

Doing the job may not be hard but the admin snake pit may get you.

[the kid]

Where I am I think it is easier, or USED to be, something happened in the summer, some spanner or something and I cannot spend anything. HOWEVER after 6 years working the system, I knew EXACTLY who to see, what to do and when to do it to get to buy things.

 

We do have fixed times on spends but we know quite far in advance of them (usually).

[gibbothegreat]

First of all, check what Jivemaster said - no room to manouevre f the school doesn't actually own it! I have a similar restriction working for a local council - even if I do sell unused stuff, the income doesn't come back to me but goes to an entirely different budget. The way I've worked round that is part exchange, if you can find suppliers who will 1) give you a reasonable deal and 2) are willing to amalgamate the purchase into the sale price so that it simply appears as a failry cheap purchase on the paperwork, then you might have scope for extracting some value that way. I've found suppliers pretty willing to help out in that respect, haven't always found it that easy to get good part-exchange values, especially in the current economic climate, but frankly even a mediocre price for something unused is better than it sitting around cluttering the place up.

[Simon Lewis]

The finance department have said that we are not allowed to sell the equipment, I'm not sure why this is and I am going to find why this is tomorrow.

 

Can't speak for schools, but I know that in HE selling equipment would be frowned upon, and even if allowed, only a percentage of the funds released would go back to the original department.

[J Pearce]

Speaking as someone who is about to finish 3 years as a school tech, don't bother. Unless you can arrange a moderately crafty part exchange, you won't get what you want. The finance system can't handle it, the bosses won't like it and it will cause far too much pain and stress.

 

If these items are required for teaching they will find money, in my experience schools are far from poor, they are just well controlled.

If they are required for extra curricular appeal to the head, governors and parents society, justifying why they will enrich the lives of the students or raise the profile of the school.

[Bobbsy]

It's not just schools. Selling supposedly-current gear can be a problem in a a good many companies.

 

Besides the reasons already mentioned, a big one can be the "fixed asset register" which, in turn, determines how gear is handled for accounting purposes. Very often, purchases of gear are treated as "capital investment" and, instead of the whole price being accounted for in a single year, a nominal service life is determined and the cost of the gear is written down a little bit at a time over that many years. It's not unknown for auditors to want to come in and check that the gear on the books matches what you have in the cupboard.

 

Accountants have there own ways of looking at things--the trick is to learn how they do things then play the system!

[Robin D]

The difficult bit is if the current value is less than the asset value, which is normally the case.

 

Two reasons:

• Most companies write off the asset (capital value) over a number of years on a linear scale. So most gear that takes a big depreciation drop initially and then slows, means that the book value is always higher than the market value.
  
• Some companies/organisations write off the asset over too long a period. I know of one company that was writing off computer equipment over 7 years whereas in reality the stuff was virtually completely useless (and valueless) after 3. However, the book value was still more than half what they paid for it.
  

 

To the OP, if its not a PFI, than ask for the information from the asset register to see if its worth selling to cover the asset write-off. Remember that only the balance will then potentially be available to fund new items. E.g: Item bought for £2100 four years ago and depreciated over 7 years, current asset value is therefore £900. If its actually worth £1000 on the open market, you would only release £100 from the disposal as you have to write down the £900 against the current year P&L. However, its more likely that the item is worth £500 leading to an early asset write off of £400 in the current year. Hence the beancounters accountants, would rather leave the items in the cupboard ageing out even though according to the rules they should be revaluing the asset register each year! As mentioned above, many auditors are looking only for the physical item, as they have no idea of its current value.

 

Learning point: If you have any influence over capital purchasing decisions, make sure the accounts people depreciate it over a realistic life cycle, and also against a non-linear profile that reflects the likely depreciation pattern. If not it will come back to haunt you.

 

Edit; SPAG.

[ojc123]

Custom and practice in our School has been that capital items for the stage are not bought using public money. It's all done from profits from shows.

This is a double edged sword. I have relative freedom to buy and sell as I like without too much interference from the Finance department. I do have a register of equipment and I run purchases/sales past the Deputy who smiles and nods. We occasionally get a bit of money from the Parents' Association but it's not public money. On the other hand I don't get any budget for the stage activities. They pay me and they provide the space etc. The freedom is worth a lot to me so I prefer to keep it that way.

I never let the positive balance get too big in case someone notices and spirits the money away. I can run a deficit in the run up to a show.

I think this arrangement is fairly unusual but I'm happy with it. The auditors seem ok with it so far. I think the important part for them is that it's not public money.

 

The IT equipment (PC, Projector etc) is bought by the School and is not part of my relative financial freedom. I would not be allowed to sell that. In fact there is a spare projector sitting in a cupboard because it can't be sold until it becomes "valueless" next year.:blink: . By that time we'll get nothing for it because it's too old. It makes no sense to me but there you go. It's an example of what Robin D explains rather well.

[MrBoomal]

I, like many I suspect, are itching to find out, what the equipment is.

[Johnno]

I got permission to dispose of junk via ebay on the quiet. Our finance manager is a lady of many budgets and will easily rework any resulting income. I haven't used the facility yet, though.

 

If I want rid of anything I write it off as junk when I'm asked to do a stock take. To be truthful most of it is/was. Anyone want a 16mm projector? 35mm slide projector? VHS video editing suite with cassette recorders that were failed by PAT? Our stock take doesn't include anything less than £100 so I list it as worth less than £100 then bin it.