Bose L1

[oakeedokee]

A friend of mine has bought the Bose L1 compact and reckons it's awesome. See here.

I've seen the videos but not heard it yet so does anyone else have any experience of actually using or hearing it either in the conference world or for live music? Are there any problems with feedback as the speakers are positioned behind the performers although at a lower sound level than with a normal PA?

[Simon Lewis]

I lost the lengthy reply I started... but I have heard a good demo where each member of a jazz band had their own L1. The sound was more than acceptable in the several hundred seat venue they played in.

 

A friend - with lengthy experience as a musician and having used most of the PA systems out there, has an L1 for his folk band, and is very happy with it. The key selling point is its ease of use and portability.

 

Bose have some very clever electroacousticians working for them, and their present products are far removed from the days of 802s. Of course, the L1 can't break the laws of physics, and doesn't replace a well engineered larger SR solution, but it does provide good local reinforcement, and I would recommend you get a demo or use one on a gig to see what it's capable of.

[brainwave-generator]

their present products are far removed from the days of 802s

 

Out of interest what you got against 802s? I think they're pretty smart speakers. They're fairly small and corporate-gig acceptable, not expensive to hire, and they make a lot of noise if you send enough electricity in their direction. And they do make that noise rather pleasantly.

 

Given they are not impressive solutions that make a lot from a little - like the L1. But for small, smart, point source boxes I always thought they were rather good.

[WiLL]

A friend of mine has bought the Bose L1 compact and reckons it's awesome. See here.

I've seen the videos but not heard it yet so does anyone else have any experience of actually using or hearing it either in the conference world or for live music? Are there any problems with feedback as the speakers are positioned behind the performers although at a lower sound level than with a normal PA?

I've some small band experience with the original L1. An 8 piece rhythm and blues band who had a 3 piece horn section. The L1 was primarily used behind the horns as their primary monitor and as a secondary P.A for them. Their instrument mics were taken straight to the L1 and then a feed from that to the main P.A. I have to say the L1 sounds great, but I would seriously only consider it for bands where a more acoustic sound is desired, and in terms of power, one post per musician seems to be the norm. We experienced no feedback from the L1 but it lacked the oomph when used alongside a standard P.A which had the vocals etc going through it (hence the line out from the L1 to the main P.A).

It seems ideally suited to small groups like a four piece jazz group who each have their own pole. Then you will find it's portability, flexibility (each muso could in theory own their own pole and use it on it's own wherever they played) and warm sound is very appealing. However the price makes it a bit of a luxury when you compare what you could buy of a 'standard' P.A with the same budget.

[sleah]

their present products are far removed from the days of 802s

 

Out of interest what you got against 802s? I think they're pretty smart speakers. They're fairly small and corporate-gig acceptable, not expensive to hire, and they make a lot of noise if you send enough electricity in their direction. And they do make that noise rather pleasantly.

 

Given they are not impressive solutions that make a lot from a little - like the L1. But for small, smart, point source boxes I always thought they were rather good.

 

I'd like to know that too?

 

I'd also like to know where the "No highs, no lows" joke comes from? A properly configured and used as intended Bose system does both perfectly well.

When run without the system controller then it is true. But anyone who does use them without the controller, or thinks it's acceptable not to use one, deserves a 302 dropped on them from a great height!

 

I suspect a lot of Bose 'hate' is actually coming from people who simply try and use them for something they weren't intended for or just too dumb to use them properly.

[Simon Lewis]

802s were (like many new products in the eighties) really good at the time. They could go quite loud, they were light and portable, and even weatherproof. They took the conference market by storm.

I think the main reservations with the design are that the equalisation required to achieve the "full range" monicker was considered excessive (~ +15dB LF, ~ +18dB HF) which quickly caused clipping at the amp for given frequencies. The recommended amp was "oversized" to help with this a little, but we weren't quite used to that concept then! Furthermore, the placement and resultant dispersion of the 5.25" units meant that lobing was present and pattern control was problematic.

 

Of course, there were plenty of other audio sins around at the time, and the 802s were by no means "bad" compared to them. However, the products available have improved a lot since then. Also, the perception that Bose spent more on glossy marketing than actual product development hasn't helped either.

 

I suspect that an L1 compared to an 802 would sound much better. Inter driver spacing and cone diameter is small enough to achieve useful coupling at a wider range of frequencies, DSP is available to provide more intelligent amplitude and phase correction (although I do not know how or if that is implemented in the L1 unit).

 

For those in the conference market, units such as the small d&b boxes are arguably better sounding with more controlled directivity, transition between LF and HF and smoother off axis response. Of course, these rent for a little more money than the 802s....

 

What I won't subscribe to though is the automatic "All Bose is c**p" reposnse... It's a tired and invalid reaction that isn't based on rational fact.

 

Simon

[RichM]

They're... corporate-gig acceptable,

 

They might have been, many years back.

 

Almost every corporate show I do these days is using Nexo or D&B. The world has moved on to better things...

 

As for the L1 system, they're OK as long as you use them carefully. With one column per musician in a folk or jazz type band playing smallish venues they can work pretty well. But if you're needing 4 or more sets to do this you're getting into pretty expensive territory.

[GR1]

These have been out for a while. About 4 years ago I was working at the Business Design Centre in Islington when a client arrived with 2 of them they were planning to use to speak to an audience of 500 using a radio mic hired from us.Our project manager looked at them and scoffed so I played with them. They are good for mostly acoustic bands in pubs or clubs but are no substitute for a proper PA in bigger venues or with difficult acoustics. Used on the main floor at the BDC not a single word was intelligable more than 10 feet from them so we had to rig a standard PA. So, good when used as suggested but not a replacement for a PA or for use with difficult acoustics or a mostly electic band.

[matt-the-dj]

A party band I used to engineer for swopped a standard 2top 2bass pa for one of these, I found it difficult to use a full pa style setup, I had little headroom on the lower frequencies. I seemed to using it for reasons it wasnt really deisgned or sold for, I couldnt run a bass guitar or drums through it as it lacked punch, vocally I couldnt fault it, I had two L1 columns each with 2 bass units, it seemed a shame to use it that way as I had a digital system when used with the appropriate controller being run in analogue mode. The real reason I think they bought I was down to size and weight.

 

would I swap my pa for one -no

would it suit an acoustic band - yes

 

Demo is a must.

my 2p's worth.

[i_hate_fisicks]

If you need one per musician (as it is marketed, and which does make some sense), it's ever so expensive! You can have a fair bit of conventional PA for a 5 piece band for £12k.

[Simon Lewis]

I'd also like to know where the "No highs, no lows" joke comes from? A properly configured and used as intended Bose system does both perfectly well.

When run without the system controller then it is true. But anyone who does use them without the controller, or thinks it's acceptable not to use one, deserves a 302 dropped on them from a great height!

 

I suspect a lot of Bose 'hate' is actually coming from people who simply try and use them for something they weren't intended for or just too dumb to use them properly.

 

I do not know the origin of the "no highs no lows" quip, but it could indeed be a result of use without the controller. Originally, Bose stated there was no need for a low frequency speaker, as the 802 would do "everything". That changed in time, and the bandpass sub (plus the Cannon!) was introduced. From memory, the controller allowed the 802 to still pass LF albeit at a lower level. As others have stated, the 802 has been supersed by better designed, better performing, better sounding boxes.

I do not "hate" Bose, but do smile wryly at the claims made for the original speakers. I also squirm a little when remembering the time at a conference dinner when I stated "the 802 must have an HF polar plot resembling a porcupine in heat" then looked at the name badge of the person opposite. It was my bad luck that he was the European Sales Director for Bose ;-)

[MarkPAman]

The 802 was also very inefficient, and at a time when power amps were priced at at least £1 per Watt that made a big difference.

 

The company I worked for in the 80s had one 802 (& a controller) as part of our demo setup, to show that more Watts does not mean louder.

 

 

Back to the L1 - there's band local to me who put all the sound of their acoustic 3 piece through one tower & it sounds fantastic.

 

I've also been at a wedding where the DJ had 2 towers and again, a great sound - until he turned it up to eleven, trying match volume of the the band. OK he didn't have enough equipment for the room, but the bands rig was only mid priced speakers on sticks & that had been fine.

[S&L]

L1's - with sub, great for acoustic artists. weird getting used to the clarity on stage with the speakers behind you - meaning you don't need monitors. I have no hesitation recommending them for solo artists and the speed of set up for a modest conference type situation or acoustic gig make them almost unrivalled. a friend of mine does his acoustic shows with a set. he is out for the summer season on corfu at the moment - wandering with them from bar to bar. I timed him setting up the system including 2 mics and 2 acoustics - from car to finished stage, less than 7 minutes AND I kept him talking to distract him. and remember there is no heavy lifting and the system takes up much less space than boxes on sticks, giving much better visibility in small environments.

to my ears their many small speakers are very clear and very bright and Bose use this to cheat - i.e. you get bass from the box, top from the stick and some of the middle is missing but in that environment for acoustic gigs and speech it doesn't seem to matter - in fact it's a positive benefit.

if you are buying 2nd hand or protecting watch the location pins on the column - apparently prone to breaking.

LD and others now do similar but cheaper systems - I would be interested to know what the quality was like by comparison

 

I should also say that the same guy uses the same system for open mic/singer's night's. bass players tend to bring an amp but generally you can put a selection of instruments thro at the same time and get decent results - fiddle and 2 acoustics, acoustic and di'ed electric, 3 or 4 acoustic and electric guitars, harmonica etc,

[dbuckley]

As a kiddie I saw a Roland synth demo, in a room in a hotel. There were eight 802s (two stacks of four) and it sounded nothing less than awesome. The level of bass was astonishing.

 

Over the years I've used 802s on many occasions. They work, and for their time were impressive, though as noted, they needed decent amplification. However, I've never known a speaker to give me headaches like the 802, even at moderate levels.

 

Now the Bose cannons, they rumbled, the Hawth had a couple in the roof...

 

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Bose kit, despite most of the Pros hating them; it's just gear, which you use as appropriate.

[oakeedokee]

Thanks for the replies, much as I suspected really. I reckon in a small room it would sound great, but not so in a larger venue or noisy environment.