Unicorn becomes latest arts company to shelve unpaid internships

[torch1972]

Unicorn becomes latest arts company to shelve unpaid internships arctile in The Stage link

 

Work experience is a valuable for a young person who would like to get into the industry, has the tide turn and we will start to see the end of these full time un-paid internships?

[Brian]

...full time un-paid internships?

That's the problem though isn't it? How can a full-time unpaid job be anything but an attempt to avoid paying someone a fair wage for the work they are doing.

 

I've yet to see any employer doing this offer a believable explanation.

[brainwave-generator]

...full time un-paid internships?

That's the problem though isn't it? How can a full-time unpaid job be anything but an attempt to avoid paying someone a fair wage for the work they are doing.

 

I've yet to see any employer doing this offer a believable explanation.

 

 

Some people just do not have the budget to pay more employees. The money is simply not there, and frankly, they don't NEED any more workers either.

 

They can, however, offer knowledge and experience, and a facility which features the necessary equipment and space for new trainees to learn the job in a realistic environment.

 

So, if you have no money, you have 2 options - offer it for free, or don't offer it at all.

 

One would think that a decent theatre might offer it for free. But they are now being pressurised to be closed doors, because learning is not enough. It has to be learning and paying.

 

If I had a venue and equipment I would love to train new entrants into professional technicians with an internship scheme. It would be very frustrating to be told that I wasn't allowed to pass on my knowledge simply because I couldn't pay them for their learning. Especially when outside the internship industry students in higher education have to pay tens of thousands of pounds to learn in a classroom environment where they don't even get proper professional experience.

 

I really think people need to get their heads around the idea that commercial facilities can't just hand out money left right and centre because they're charging on the doors. The current thinking is that if you build a theatre in a university, you can let people learn in it and charge them 9 grand a year for the pleasure; but if you build a theatre and charge money for tickets, not only can you not charge the 9 grand but you have to pay them too! It's very sad, with the amount of people paying for education, I would say that a free education represented good value for money, not slave labour.

[kerry davies]

From the report we are no further forward. The exploitative vermin at Unicorn have agreed to suspend their internship programme whilst ACE sorts out some grants for them to continue their activities.

 

Posted before that, had I known, Unicorn would have joined the list of those I have reported to HMRC for tax and NI avoidance. Next thing you know theatre would join the growing list of companies using prisoner labour to sack regular staff and turn the UK into the Gulag Archipelago.

[paulears]

I don't have any problems with unpaid internships - very popular in the US - BUT - only when they are genuinely training people. Training isn't work, it's learning while working. The nearest thing we have had is the old day release - but the work element was paid, because they were working at a low level, while training to do the things other do, that at the stage they were at, they couldn't do ... yet.

 

In smaller companies or larger, but busy ones, there can't be training without taking the trainer away from real work too. If you can do a job in X hours, then to do it and train somebody else at the same time might take 1.5X or 2X - making the job more expensive. So calling a tradesman could cost you £75 if he visits on his own, or £150 if he brings the 'intern' with him - would the public pay double, or could the firm make 50% of the profit they usually do?

 

It's pretty clear that in our own industry, we don't really do training any more - we're cut to the bone body count wise - so we want people who can already do things straight away. One of my clients actually complained I was showing somebody how to do something - why did he have to pay for me to show her things rather than doing work?

 

Getting a willing body under the guise of training stinks. All the jobs for no pay that with "Would be a good opportunity for a newcomer ......" just shout exploitation. Working for free as in observation on top of the usual staffing, is ok - but these jobs are always instead of the usual staffing.

[kerry davies]

Paul,I really can't add any more to your first two paragraphs except; Oh dear!

 

The new UK version of "day release"?

[lite_lad]

Especially when outside the internship industry students in higher education have to pay tens of thousands of pounds to learn in a classroom environment where they don't even get proper professional experience.

 

I think this is a very unfair and sweeping statement, do you have any first hand experience of multiple higher education institues? I think you may want to rephrase that in future...

[Claire]

Brainwave_Generator, nobody is saying you can't do work experience, or a genuine 'internship' where you are learning and maybe you might get travel expenses etc.

 

The issue is with companies offering 'internships' to people who are doing the work that if they weren't there, someone would have to be paid to do. Like some companies offer unpaid internships where the ASM intern has specific tasks to do but there are paid ASMs there too. If the intern didn't show up, the show would run exactly the same. They don't have show duties in lieu of a paid member of staff. The Donmar and Royal Court both do placements like that. OK, you can't do it unless you can support yourself by other means, but you are supernumary.

 

Whereas others use interns instead of hiring someone. If someone didn't do it, they'd have to pay someone to do it. There's no mentorship or training element there, just working in a job role for free in the guise of learning. Yeah you learn, but you aren't being 'trained' as such and that's not work experience or an internship it is just free labour and it's what makes it hard for those of us who aren't bankrolled by other means to gain realistic experience. I have been a mentor in another industry and supernumary status is a real issue because students (or unpaid interns) should definitely NOT be counted in the staffing numbers. The work they do should cancel out the time the paid staff member takes to teach the learner.

[Simon Lewis]

Brainwave, although it's good to see your altruism and desire to train others, the simple fact is that training costs time and money. Not so many places can really afford to give it away.

....students in higher education have to pay tens of thousands of pounds to learn in a classroom environment where they don't even get proper professional experience.

 

 

 

Those of us in higher education aren't too keen about fees, student control numbers, HEFCE clawbacks for incomplete study and a host of other political constructs foisted on us. However, I and many of the institutions that I'm familiar with do go to some considerable length to provide students with professional experience. However, one key difference is that we often create scenarios where the student can "fail" without anyone getting hurt. An intrinsic part of learning is doing it for yourself (and being allowed to get it wrong) but then getting structured feedback on what was good and what needed improving. Often there simply isn't time to do all of that on a real job.

 

The other thing worth pointing out is that whilst training is an essential part of learning, it is different from education. My take is that most people benefit from structured training and well designed and delivered education - and that is what colleges and universities should (hopefully) be providing.