trots Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi, I'm looking to mount some external effect lights (such as optikinetics K4's) onto scaffolding poles in a greenfield site. I've seen bits of kit that are used for pushing poles into the ground, but don't know what they're called or where to get them from. Also is there an easy technique for removing the poles afterwards? Any advice very gratefully recieved. Cheers! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I've seen bits of kit that are used for pushing poles into the ground, but don't know what they're called or where to get them from All terrain fork lift trucks or Sledge Hammers. Various other devices exist but are overly complicated and expensive when compared to either of these options Also is there an easy technique for removing the poles afterwards? chain + aforementioned FLT and a driver/operator who knows what he's doing. That light unit doesn't have any sort of IP rating (and has a heck of a lot of vents in it) so I assume you have also allowed for some sort of enclosure for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 And as an aside, DON'T assume that just because you're in the middle of a field that there's definitely nothing buried underground.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Usually you knock in a short pole with a flattened end ("putlog") then clamp the big pole to that with swivels, this gives you the ability to get the big pole vertical in the likely event you didn't knock it in straight. If there's any marquee/big top people on site they might be persuaded to put the short pole in for you with their special vibrating peg knocking in thingys. A lot easier than a sledgehammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trots Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Thanks for the advice. I thought a sledge hammer would probably do the trick, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an easier option! The lighting does produce some heat and require ventilation however I've seen them successfully waterproofed using perspex (or something similar) rolled into a cylinder around the unit - allowing for airflow from either end. I think this looks like a good method, unless you have a better suggestion. Unfortunately we are a (very) small operation so will not have a forklift onsite - do you think it would be manageable to remove them manually? Cheers! I've seen bits of kit that are used for pushing poles into the ground, but don't know what they're called or where to get them from All terrain fork lift trucks or Sledge Hammers. Various other devices exist but are overly complicated and expensive when compared to either of these options Also is there an easy technique for removing the poles afterwards? chain + aforementioned FLT and a driver/operator who knows what he's doing. That light unit doesn't have any sort of IP rating (and has a heck of a lot of vents in it) so I assume you have also allowed for some sort of enclosure for them? I hadn't thought of flattening the end! Cheers - that'll make it easier. Usually you knock in a short pole with a flattened end ("putlog") then clamp the big pole to that with swivels, this gives you the ability to get the big pole vertical in the likely event you didn't knock it in straight. If there's any marquee/big top people on site they might be persuaded to put the short pole in for you with their special vibrating peg knocking in thingys. A lot easier than a sledgehammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Unfortunately we are a (very) small operation so will not have a forklift onsite - do you think it would be manageable to remove them manually? You can get them out by opening up the hole with a lot of wiggling, especially since ground conditions are likely to be fairly soft. The flattened end poles are standard scaff items. I wouldn't recommend trying to flatten one yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 if the poles got a flattend end from hammering in lever it out,bit of 4x4 as the fulcrum and a length of scaff as the lever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Some quick points: 1) DON'T use a forklift truck to put them in. The bit where PUWER says that equipment used for work must be "suitable for use, and for the purpose and conditions in which it is used" doesn't include using a forklift truck as a hammer... unless there is a an attachment for the forklift truck that is designed for this purpose (which, I believe, there may be). 2) If using a sledgehammer, use a wood pad as well as you would use when putting steeldeck on a nice floor. Well, at least for the first few hits to help get it in. If you don't want to bend the end of the scaff, use it for the duration, if you don't mind bending the scaff, once the pole is free standing in the dirt, you can hit it directly. It will go in quicker like that. 3) To get it out either a) Use the sledehammer, hit it right, left, right, left, right, left until it is swinging around freely and then pull it out. b) Attach a swivel coupler to the top, add a nice long piece of scaffold to the end, and then several of you can wobble it around using the one big bit of scaffold, to get a bit more leverage.Again, don't use a forklift because you don't know what the load on the forklift will be (remember it'll be much greater than simply the weight of the pole), and you should never lift anything on a forklift if you don't know at least roughly what load it will put on the forks. 4) The name of a scaff pole with a flattened end is a PUTLOG. 5) IMPORTANT: Are people going to be standing around near this installation? If the answer is yes, for god's sake just get somebody who knows what they're doing. Be it a tent company (like circus tent, not weekend in Wales tent), marquee company, stage company etc who actually do this kind of thing on a regular basis and are suitably insured. If you do it yourself and it falls over, by the time it lands on somebody it will be doing a great speed and you'll be in court for either seriously injuring or killing somebody, and saying "I built it using instruction from an internet forum" is not an adequate defence in court. The prosecution will laugh at you. Sorry to be holier than thou again but big scaffold poles in public areas should be erected by people who know what they're doing. The fact that you've asked for instructions on Blue Room shows that you don't. As such, it's time to pick up the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Post driversWackers. Tim's vibrating peg thingy! Driving putlogs in with the rams on forklifts is NOT something we do, is it? We get the correct attachment to forks, telehandlers or tractors and use that DON'T we? Seen one forks on it's side after hitting rock, seen one too many. Leave the bottom swivel on the putlog on removal and use that and the upright to lever them out. It is normally an easy job unless you go through a tree root which you need to keep an eye out for when siting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 You don't "hit them in with the forks" of a forklift. There is however a method where you use a "socket" attached to the boom and use the weight of the FLT to push them in in an entirely controlled manner; a method widely used on #1 festival sites all over the country under the watchful eye of some very militant H&S people. For especially big stakes (6" diameter mega-structure stakes) they tend to use a hydraulically operated head on the end of the boom arm (basically a concrete breaker with the tip replaced with a socket that holds the stake) but that still uses the weight of the telehandler to push them in with the vibration primarily to deal with the increased number of obstacles these larger stakes hit. This is all largely irrelevant to the OP though as he has neither the budget, resources or experienced crew to undertake any of these methods. As others have said you'd be better off speaking to your marquee provider and getting them to put the putloc's in for you - its one of those jobs that we often do and charge £50 for 'cause once you've got the kit out to drive in 150 stakes; doing half a dozen putlocs is an easy job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The OP is a relative "innocent" and you too have seen them driven in with the forks so we need to be a bit more specific that's all. Not having a dip, I know you are a tent man and know the attachments better than I from first-hand usage but taking your post at face value, not knowing that there were such things as attachments, he or others reading this might get the impression that a standard forklift truck is the right tool. The crazy thing about these forum topics is that they stick around for years and more "innocents" read them than ever join the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Home-made enclosures are seldom waterproof. Actually I'd say don't do it at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trots Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Haha thanks for all the input guys. Don't worry I'm not intending to put up huge scaffolding poles and I'll make sure it's done safely (well away from people etc.). I've got no intention of using a forklft but I'm glad to hear that there is no professional concencus on using them as mallets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskers Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 A post hammer or post driver is what a farmer would put a gate post in with, a tube with 2 handles, better ones have an impact feature or hydraulicals Google will show plenty The field owner might have one, be sure its right for metal on metal, good thing is the impact zone is contained so no flying splinters or chips Basic ones start at 45.00 take some sturdy chums if you have a lot of poles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadingle Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 And as an aside, DON'T assume that just because you're in the middle of a field that there's definitely nothing buried underground.... +1 - something I'd want to check myself after my brother in law had a nasty shock (literally) when cutting a pavement for the council - after the council had checked their survey and said it was clear. Turned out on an update the left a cable off the plans - and he found it for them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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