paulears Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Thinking about timber - is there any advantage to using it at all, compared with metal. I'm thinking about two aspects - the strength of the individual timber and the strength of the joints. Welding, especially with rated welders is pretty quantifiable, but we've all, I'm sure, had batches of timber that were much harder or softer. Are there actually advantages in using timber? The disadvantages seem to point firmly to metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 If "you/us" get a chance to watch all the clips from the National's website (posted by Nathan, IIRC, and worth devoting at least an hour to watch) the subject of timber v steel is discussed by their workshops' top bod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Anyway, back on topic! I used to work in a venue with a full wooden grid... There are a fair few wooden grids dotted about the UK, they're in er.. 'historic' hemp houses mostly. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a new build though, or even a "some time in the last half century or so" build. (Southport Floral Hall maybe? How old is that place?) Thinking about timber - is there any advantage to using it at all, compared with metal.Cost, I suppose, and weight. Something to bear in mind possibly, is that every kg of 'whatever' that gets installed in the roof may be a kg less you can hang. Unlikely to be a problem in a theatrical fly-tower with a relatively small footprint, but still worth checking out. If access to the blocks and/or a few rigging points in fixed positions is the thing, I'd have thought some fairly minimal catwalks would probably be the thing (after a good hard look at the various access machines available). My first thought when I read the OP was 'tensioned wire grid', but that would be pretty miserable to work on with insufficient head room to stand up straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Another technical forum I frequent is ControlBooth. Over there they're far stricter on what can and can't be posted when it comes to "dangerous" topics (rigging and power, mostly) - and this topic would probably have been locked and hidden long before now. I personally think that the balance here on the BR is perhaps better than over at CB - but that's just my opinion - and also it's a US-based forum and I suspect the "sueing" culture is much stronger over there! I found this: http://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/Collaborative+Articles:Counterweight+Rigging and this http://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/Collaborative+Articles:Hemp+Rigging+System+Tips And I reckon in both of those, there is definitely potential for an idiot to do something wrong and hurt somebody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeen Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Thank you GridGirl, Seano, BG and a few others that have stayed "on topic" Your comments are appreciated and understood... Way back in my 1st post, I only suggested a wooden grid as I have worked in a couple of theatres with them. Thus my thinking... However my idea of asking the question "show me your grid" was to see what others have got/done. I know a wire grid is a option, but I also know that in the early planning stages of this theatre the Idea of a wire grid over the auditorium was put forward and changed for three catwalks instead. – don’t know why.... so don’t ask! So if anyone has a metal grid or another alternative I can look at that would be great. When you say metal grid are you talking of wide solid areas with a gap for the fly lines to run between? or more like a "classic" wooden grid just made of metal so lengths of flat steel 3" wide with gaps? or something completely different??? and I will investigate the Catwalk truss option too as It might be perfect for the proposed job. Thank you Iani - once I have a better idea of how and what I will then be working on access as currently only my technician, HODrama, Site manager, Bursar and Head (the last two who are scared of heights and never been up) have access. but it's all worth thinking about. My only reason for posting in the first place was to gather ideas so I can choose what I believe would suit my needs best and the down fall of other options, so when I take it to the next stage of architects/structural engineers/theatre consultant/Bursar/board of governors/ Etc. I would then be able to use other peoples experiences for the better. As I'm sure that more or less or some of the people on here know what a grid is and or have been up close and personal with one. Thanks once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Normally engineering firms would simply produce a design based on long rectangular sections with cross members, and then simple mesh over the top. They make these quite often for factories and use that open, solid mesh - although I guess you could have any particular type - including tension wire types which are getting really popular - but expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musht Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Edinburgh Playhouse is a timber grid rated to 40 tons as far as remember. Timber is stonger than steel for the same weight, not volume.Bearing in mind that a lot of buildings are of timber construction,up to a lot of storeys, the U.S system of using OSB as beams I find fascinating. Guessing a steel grid also requires some looking at for its behaviour in fire, wooden grid will reliably combust and fall in, lot of lattice steel can see wanting to twist and pull in rest of building with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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