Strings and an on stage band.

[wpg3121]

For the next show I am doing I have been informed by the MD that I will have the pleasure of dealing with an onstage band. Because it is quite a deep stage and a 300 seat theater I think the band will have to be amplified. The show is Spring Awakening and the band is technically a rock band for a lot of the show so I have to amplify the Cello and Violin in the band to compete with the drums and guitar. The ideal solution would ,I assume, be pickups but neither instrument has them. Is there any other effective way anyone can think of to mic these instruments while getting a good tone and minimising feedback?

 

Thanks,

William

[J Pearce]

MKE2 or expensive DPA setup placed on the bridge or tailpiece. You get a lovely tone and very good GBF.

You will need to liaise closely with the players as the mic will be almost inside their instrument, but most are happy to cooperate if it will get the right tone out front.

 

Alternatively look into hiring electric instruments for the players?

[paulears]

Jon's right - small omni's with the cable wrapped around with foam, so the legs of the bridge keep it in place, and a bit of tape keeps the cable secure - stuck onto the tailpiece. The tone is a bit 'sharp' so a bit of eq needs applying to level it off.

 

I'd be wary of swapping them to electrics - mainly because they'll hate them - it takes a while to acclimatise - but also because you then need amps or monitors, or in ears and it gets tricky.

[J Pearce]

DPA also make a fancy set including a proper mount that hangs off the dead side of the strings, not dissimilar to a mute.

Which reminds me, some of that sharpness can be tamed using a mute. Your players will know what this is and any respectable string player will have one. Explain that the mic picks up more resonance as its closer and that you'd like to try it with and without the mute; sometimes it really helps the tone.

[david.elsbury]

AKG C411 is a pretty reasonable contact pickup that sticks onto the instrument with a supplied goo that promises not to harm the finish of the instrument. Good gain before feedback, tone not too bad IMO. You could always mic as well as using pickup if you have the channels available and see if you can get a mix of the 2?

 

David

[Bobbsy]

I've used the small omni trick a number of times (usually with MKE2 mics) and it works very well.

 

Regarding the use of pickups, I once found a place that would hire me Fishman pickups but I was less than impressed by the quality--they were so screechy in the top end that I eventually went back to the MKE2 solution.

 

The only thing to be careful of is the mounting--tapes and adhesives can have a less-than-desired effect on the varnish and paintwork of beautiful old instruments.

[GridGirl]

Mic wrapped in foam and put under the bridge, as Paul said, is the way I've most often seen it done. We did an outdoor concert over the weekend and the entire violin/viola section was mic'ed this way. We have players with extraordinarily expensive instruments and they're happy with this solution!

[jonathanroberts1988]

Microphones are definitely the way to go, as a musician myself, you want to use your own instrument.

 

I'm a big fan of the accusound microphone range and I use the ACC-3 for cellos.

 

http://www.accusound.co.uk/productsinstrument_violin.htm

 

http://www.accusound.co.uk/productsinstrument_cello_selection.php?sort=cello

 

I can supply these for hire, please PM if you would like any more advice.

[david.elsbury]

Regarding the use of pickups, I once found a place that would hire me Fishman pickups but I was less than impressed by the quality--they were so screechy in the top end that I eventually went back to the MKE2 solution.

Oh, that's interesting to hear. We used the AKG's for an orchestra gig, and then for a folk music festival, and the folk crowd tend to be quite particular about the sound they want and we had no problems. Guess it comes down to the instruments, GBF requirements, pickups, and the way you hold your mouth at the time :)

David

[StevieR]

We use the Schertler range of transducers for this. The DYN series can be attached directly to the body of the instrument and offer fantastic feedback rejection. Against a rock band though they may be a little too mellow. You should be able to hire these or similar.

 

The alternative is the Schertler STAT pickup which fit in the bridge and give good sharp attack. However, you are unlikely to be able to hire these as they are 'carved' to fit the specific instrument and so are often purchased by the musician themselves.

 

Steve

[intyra]

If you can get hold of DPA 4099s they're well worth it.

[wpg3121]

I liked all of these suggestions very much and I asked the MD about which he preferred and then (since he is controlling my budget) how much he was willing to spend. Turns out that all of the options were spectacularly out of his price range so we settled with some £9 "Cherub Contact Mics". It appears I "got lucky" as they produce a reasonable sound and I can hide their rubbishness within the mix with some creative EQing.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions and I will keep them in mind the next time I have to do this with a proper budget.

William

[billy jim]

Regarding the omni and foam technique, would anyone be kind enough to share any images or weblinks they may have of this technique? I can't quite visualise it from the description.

 

Cheers

Ben

[indyld]

At the risk of straying into the World Of Noise, the original question was without some information such as budgets and people rightly suggested their favourite tried and trusted method of close miking for the situation as described. Just to throw it out there, future readers should remember that there are as many audio situations as there are gigs and budgets.

 

Depending on the original sound in the venue and the loudest instrument/stage levels etc, it can be fine to take a less rock and roll approach and not try to wring a ton of level out of every instrument to compete with the 110dB SPL in the room. There are show situations where isolation and GBF aren't the main focus, I've helped cellos along with large diaphragm cardioids low down, and violins with a small condensor overhead straddling two players. If you have nothing left in the mic box than a 57, then...

 

When dealing with trying to achieve a balance with the loudest acoustic sound (guh, drummers, stick 'em in the corridor) and getting a pleasing audio picture for the Billys, it's not always about turning sound waves into electricity as much electricity as possible. Just a thought.

[jason.fallon]

I used AKG C577s recently for same application. I've tried all of the usuals (DPA 4061/4099/MKE2) and I think the 577s are the best.

 

Have fun with Spring Awakening, its one of my favorites. I done the Irish Premier about 18 months ago. Get yourself some perspex for the drummer though, or else you'll run into all kinds of difficulty. It does get LOUD!

 

J